EMI SACD releases
Tue, Mar 27 2012, 4:19AM
#2
RE: EMI SACD releases
[33lp wrote:]
I've never really taken to Karajan's DG BPO Bruckner 8th which I bought just before his VPO version (which I've not heard) appeared and which seems to have been considered the best of his several versions.
Contrary to many brucknerians I do like Karajan's Bruckner recordings: 7th w/ BPO on EMI (yes, a bit slow but rich and mouving) and 8th w/ VPO (DG) in particular. The latter may lack some introspection, more intimacy of a, say, Giulini (DG), but you cannot deny that this symphony needs drive and impact: that's what HvK & VPO offer in plenty and, imo, they convince: one of may favourites Bruckner's 8th.
Another perspective you may get from the already mentioned Giulini, Boulez (DG-Live), that many like but I found it not on pair w/ the best, and the historic Jochum's recording from the 1930s (DG).
Besides, a quite different view we got from the Celibidache reading (Munich - EMI), however Celibidache's Bruckner is subject for another (polemical) thread.
Tue, Mar 27 2012, 11:23AM
#3
RE: EMI SACD releases
The problem with the Karajan/EMI 8th was the peak distortion in the last movement in particular. The DGG version is far preferable and I find it the most moving in the Adagio.
I bought Simone Young's recording of the original version last year. A wallow and not for those that prattle on all the time about the importance of "structure" (yawn).
I like Karajan in Bruckner preferring him to the inexplicably rated Jochum.
In fact I prefer Karajan to a lot of the rated conductors in this repertoire.
Tue, Mar 27 2012, 1:27PM
#4
RE: EMI SACD releases
I prefer Karajan on DG, with BPO in top form, even if the work is not yet served to the letter or even the spirit of it. The sheer beauty of the sound produced is enough to justify the importance of the performance.
I found Simone Young quite good again as far as the sonorities of the work. Young has been quite impressive in her cycle of Bruckner and, by the way, in very good SACD sound, on OEHMS.
Parla
Tue, Mar 27 2012, 3:38PM
#5
RE: EMI SACD releases
I prefer Karajan on DG, with BPO in top form, even if the work is not yet served to the letter or even the spirit of it. The sheer beauty of the sound produced is enough to justify the importance of the performance.
I found Simone Young quite good again as far as the sonorities of the work. Young has been quite impressive in her cycle of Bruckner and, by the way, in very good SACD sound, on OEHMS.
Parla
Here you go again.
Of course Karajan serves the spirit of the work and I have no idea what you mean by "letter."
Do you mean he veers away from the written score, inserts too many ritordandi when none are called for, for example, did you listen with the Nowak edition where Karajan is, clearly, using the Haas or what?
Wed, Mar 28 2012, 1:08AM
#6
RE: EMI SACD releases
I have in some movements (particularly the slow ones) a problem with the tempi and his interpretation of the dynamics he opted versus those written on the score.
Generally speaking, his obsession to produce the optimum sound out of these Symphonies, on certain occasions, goes beyond the original composition. In other words, the Symphonies sound more Karajan than Bruckner. However, this is not always a negative thing, particularly when the aesthetic perception of the work is enhanced even beyond the vision of the composer.
Parla
Wed, Mar 28 2012, 11:07AM
#7
RE: EMI SACD releases
I have in some movements (particularly the slow ones) a problem with the tempi and his interpretation of the dynamics he opted versus those written on the score.
Generally speaking, his obsession to produce the optimum sound out of these Symphonies, on certain occasions, goes beyond the original composition. In other words, the Symphonies sound more Karajan than Bruckner. However, this is not always a negative thing, particularly when the aesthetic perception of the work is enhanced even beyond the vision of the composer.
Parla
What are you saying: Karajan ignores Bruckner's written dynamics and tempi?
Who else does this?
Clearly, you are not familiar with some of Jochum's performances where on occasion he almost comes to a stop, or so it sounds to me, and he forgoes rubato.
I fear that you may have dug yourself into another hole, here.
I, really, do not know why I bother.
Probably because I fear some may believe you.
Wed, Mar 28 2012, 11:36AM
#8
RE: EMI SACD releases
... more Karajan than Bruckner. However, this is not always a negative thing, particularly when the aesthetic perception of the work is enhanced even beyond the vision of the composer.
Parla
It's funny how sometimes we read that classical music compositions represent god-given perfection (where words like "brilliant" attached to them become fact not opinion) and at others can be enhanced by interpretation. Well, perhaps funny isn't the right word here.
Vic.
Wed, Mar 28 2012, 12:02PM
#9
RE: EMI SACD releases
I fear that you may have dug yourself into another hole, here.
I, really, do not know why I bother.
Probably because I fear some may believe you.
It has taken a long time, and thousands of words back and forth, Troyen, but I think it has been established that while most of Parla's pronouncements come from his undoubted extensive knowledge and experience, some are plainly absurd and/or illogical. The trouble is, he defends both equally and at great length, sometimes seemingly seeking to prove black is white, digging himself deeper and deeper into that hole you mention.
Why bother to pursue the latter? Well, I suppose the truth is important for its own sake and it's better than letting nonsense stand as fact, unchallenged. And it can and has been done by reasoned argument. Is it worth is? Well, I think so. But, each to his own.
Vic.
Wed, Mar 28 2012, 12:07PM
#10
RE: EMI SACD releases
Why bother to pursue the latter? Well, I suppose the truth is important for its own sake and it's better than letting nonsense stand as fact, unchallenged. And it can and has been done by reasoned argument. Is it worth is? Well, I think so. But, each to his own.
Vic.
I think many of us without your reserves of patience regard you and Troyen as our proxies!
Wed, Mar 28 2012, 10:50PM
#11
RE: EMI SACD releases
Since this seems to have turned into a Bruckner topic, why doesn't everyone relax and go to classiclive.com and listen to a wonderful performance of the 4th Symphony by the Lahti Symphony conducted by Okko Kamu. You can watch or just listen while some of you on other topics continue with the vitriol.
Thu, Mar 29 2012, 12:07AM
#12
RE: EMI SACD releases
Since this seems to have turned into a Bruckner topic, why doesn't everyone relax and go to classiclive.com and listen to a wonderful performance of the 4th Symphony by the Lahti Symphony conducted by Okko Kamu. You can watch or just listen while some of you on other topics continue with the vitriol.
I thought you stated that you were leaving and, yet, here you are, still here.
Thu, Mar 29 2012, 1:52AM
#13
RE: EMI SACD releases
Yes, I'm shooting for 100 posts and lo and behold, thanks to you, I just did. By the way, if you have nothing constructive to say about anything, why don't you stop reading my posts.
Thu, Mar 29 2012, 8:41AM
#14
RE: EMI SACD releases
So, Bruckner and Karajan igniting new controversy. Vic and Troyen become the "proxies" of...some others to preach the truth against those who dare to say something different.
By the way, Karajan has changed his own views on anyhing he performed by the years like any great conductor. I just said that the particular version on DG has its strong and some at least less positive elements. I never praised Jochum, by the way, and I never claimed somebody else is better than Karajan. I just implied that some people might go for some less polished...Is that such a big deal?
Parla
Thu, Mar 29 2012, 11:11AM
#15
RE: EMI SACD releases
Yes, I'm shooting for 100 posts and lo and behold, thanks to you, I just did. By the way, if you have nothing constructive to say about anything, why don't you stop reading my posts.
Just as you should stop responding to mine before you fully understand them.
Oh, so, now, we a "shooting for a hundred posts." That's a new one worthy of your friend.
Be creful you don't "shoot" yourself.
Oop, you have.
I've never really taken to Karajan's DG BPO Bruckner 8th which I bought just before his VPO version (which I've not heard) appeared and which seems to have been considered the best of his several versions. Barbirolli's live Halle version strikes me as more inspired if one can tolerate the Festival Hall acoustic but overall I would go for Mehta's Los Angeles version, no doubt partly seduced by their luscious string sound and Decca's superlative recording.