Gold medals.
Sat, Jun 16 2012, 2:29PM
Handing out gold medals in London is going to be quite the thing this summer. So in the spirit of patriotism the BBC via Building a Library have already decided who the 'greatest orchestra ever' are, yes it's our very own (or maybe their very own) LSO. The Gold medal in Sibelius Symphony No5 is their recent addition to their already quite impressive collection (does someone, or everyone at the BBC have shares in the LSO). Can any other country match 'Team GB' in the orchestra department, not according to the BBC. What makes us so good and why can't any other country compete with us. Go LSO, Go LSO, Go LSO. Make us proud every saturday morning, we believe everything you tell us.
Mon, Jun 18 2012, 11:24PM
#2
RE: Gold medals. RE: Gold medals.
I had a listen to this (from the CD, not the radio). It strikes me as a reasonably good version with more agreeable sound than many in the LSO Live series. But I would have difficulty picking it as a first choice amongst others I have (Barbirolli (2), Bernstein(2), Berglund, Karajan(2), Ashkenazy, Rattle, Kajanus, Davis (Boston) and others) (I actually enjoyed the coupled LSO Live 6 slightly more than 5.)
However I do have one issue with Stephen Johnson's review (and Andrew McGregor's subsequent comment that "this marks it out as one of the great 5th recordings") which concerns the ending. Surely Davis doesn't generate any more tension than other conductors who hold the pauses at the end making him somehow more convincing here than anyone else?
Ted
Tue, Jun 19 2012, 9:44AM
#3
RE: Gold medals.
This Saturdays Building a Library was as convincing as hearing French Radio tell us that only Pierre with Le Orchestra on Un Label really gets to the heart of the piece, and just listen to those silences at the end inbetween those beats, true French silences. Available now from Le French Radio Shop. Pull the other one The BBC.
Tue, Jun 19 2012, 12:13PM
#4
RE: Gold medals.
This Saturdays Building a Library was as convincing as hearing French Radio tell us that only Pierre with Le Orchestra on Un Label really gets to the heart of the piece, and just listen to those silences at the end inbetween those beats, true French silences. Available now from Le French Radio Shop. Pull the other one The BBC.
Go on, break a habit of a lifetime and tell us what your choice(s) are, even if it risks the rest of us rolling in the aisles with derisive laughter.
Go on, I double-dog dare you.
See it as part of your therapy.
Tue, Jun 19 2012, 12:23PM
#5
RE: Gold medals.
Hello Troyen! Are you going to report on the Bruckner 9?
[If so, perhaps in the Composers and their methods thread].
Chris
Tue, Jun 19 2012, 1:14PM
#6
RE: Gold medals.
I have always thought the revamped LSO in the late 50s and early 60s following mass resignations and many new recruits such as Marriner, Tuckwell, de Peyer etc was the brightest , brashest and most brilliant orchestra ever but I suspect that's also because it coincided with Decca's best ever recorded sound in the Kingsway Hall (and sometimes Walthamstow). I don't have any recent LSO recordings because from what I have heard on Gramophone cover CDs I don't like the Barbican recorded sound.
What did make them stand out though was the quality of the soloists - no European orch in Vienna or Berlin could match those LSO wind or brass soloists; remember the VPO's reedy thin oboist in the 60s?
Not so sure about the Americans though, Szell's Cleveland, Reiner's & later Solti's Chicago would be a fair match for the LSO.
The LSO of the period of course had a reputation for their ruthless attitude towards conductors (I seem to recall Giulini & a young Rattle saying they would never work with the LSO again). It was always said they hated Dorati yet it was he who knocked them into shape in a period when they had no principal conductor and made some well known recordings with them for Mercury. Later they appointed octogenerian Monteux for whom they played superbly and made some wonderful recordings including Daphnis & Chloe (one of John Culshaw's favourite recordings), Dvorak 7, Beethoven and arguably the greatest Enigma where Decca's sound fully expoited Monteux's antiphonal violins which is surely how Elgar intended it to be heard. He also took them to Vienna and there's an excellent live (presumably genuine unedited "live") performance of Tchaikovsky 5 and the first PC with John Ogdon on a couple of Vanguard CDs in good sound. (See also Tully Potter's comments on Monteux on the Home page).
Tue, Jun 19 2012, 1:15PM
#7
RE: Gold medals.
I double-dog dare you.
Three Scooby snacks would be my minimum price.
Thu, Jun 21 2012, 3:22PM
#8
RE: Gold medals.
I have always thought the revamped LSO in the late 50s and early 60s following mass resignations and many new recruits such as Marriner, Tuckwell, de Peyer etc was the brightest , brashest and most brilliant orchestra ever but I suspect that's also because it coincided with Decca's best ever recorded sound in the Kingsway Hall (and sometimes Walthamstow). I don't have any recent LSO recordings because from what I have heard on Gramophone cover CDs I don't like the Barbican recorded sound.
What did make them stand out though was the quality of the soloists - no European orch in Vienna or Berlin could match those LSO wind or brass soloists; remember the VPO's reedy thin oboist in the 60s?
Not so sure about the Americans though, Szell's Cleveland, Reiner's & later Solti's Chicago would be a fair match for the LSO.
The LSO of the period of course had a reputation for their ruthless attitude towards conductors (I seem to recall Giulini & a young Rattle saying they would never work with the LSO again). It was always said they hated Dorati yet it was he who knocked them into shape in a period when they had no principal conductor and made some well known recordings with them for Mercury. Later they appointed octogenerian Monteux for whom they played superbly and made some wonderful recordings including Daphnis & Chloe (one of John Culshaw's favourite recordings), Dvorak 7, Beethoven and arguably the greatest Enigma where Decca's sound fully expoited Monteux's antiphonal violins which is surely how Elgar intended it to be heard. He also took them to Vienna and there's an excellent live (presumably genuine unedited "live") performance of Tchaikovsky 5 and the first PC with John Ogdon on a couple of Vanguard CDs in good sound. (See also Tully Potter's comments on Monteux on the Home page).
You have forgotten the late relationship that they formed with Karl Bohm, of all conductors!
I think, although I stand to be corrected, that this happened at the Salzburg Festival when Bohm was a guest conductor.
There were a number of recordings issued some time back of Bohm's late sojourn with the orchestra.
Flash they might have been but I would prefer them than some of the, definitely, flash American orchestras such as the Cleveland who can't play Bruckner for toffee, the Chicago who have had two bad conductors in a row and the Philadelphia who have been "Germanised" by kappellmeisters!
The Boston, Detroit and San Francisco were, essentially, disciplined French orchestras!
Thu, Jun 21 2012, 9:57PM
#9
RE: Gold medals.
You have forgotten the late relationship that they formed with Karl Bohm, of all conductors!
I think, although I stand to be corrected, that this happened at the Salzburg Festival when Bohm was a guest conductor.
There were a number of recordings issued some time back of Bohm's late sojourn with the orchestra.
Flash they might have been but I would prefer them than some of the, definitely, flash American orchestras such as the Cleveland who can't play Bruckner for toffee, the Chicago who have had two bad conductors in a row and the Philadelphia who have been "Germanised" by kappellmeisters!
The Boston, Detroit and San Francisco were, essentially, disciplined French orchestras!
[/quote]
Troyen1: Referring to the above quote:
I assume you are speaking of the present Chicago Symphony. You consider Riccardo Muti a "bad conductor"? The Chicago, LA, NY, Philadelphia & Boston symphony orchestras visited San Francisco this season. The best of the bunch is considered to be the Chicago, conducted by Muti. But then maybe you were referring to Barenboim and Haitink (or Solti). Please enlighten us. Thank you.
Fri, Jun 22 2012, 12:37AM
#10
RE: Gold medals.
I double-dog dare you.
The answer is "no", then?
Fri, Jun 22 2012, 12:41AM
#11
RE: Gold medals.
You have forgotten the late relationship that they formed with Karl Bohm, of all conductors!
Troyen1: Referring to the above quote: I assume you are speaking of the present Chicago Symphony. You consider Riccardo Muti a "bad conductor"? The Chicago, LA, NY, Philadelphia & Boston symphony orchestras visited San Francisco this season. The best of the bunch is considered to be the Chicago, conducted by Muti. But then maybe you were referring to Barenboim and Haitink (or Solti). Please enlighten us. Thank you.[/quote]
I think, although I stand to be corrected, that this happened at the Salzburg Festival when Bohm was a guest conductor.
There were a number of recordings issued some time back of Bohm's late sojourn with the orchestra.
Flash they might have been but I would prefer them than some of the, definitely, flash American orchestras such as the Cleveland who can't play Bruckner for toffee, the Chicago who have had two bad conductors in a row and the Philadelphia who have been "Germanised" by kappellmeisters!
The Boston, Detroit and San Francisco were, essentially, disciplined French orchestras!
Enliten uz or u, mor lyk.
Wy shude I? Juge 4 urself wot I ment an then go luze urself, agin.
Fri, Jun 22 2012, 2:20AM
#12
RE: Gold medals.
Troyen1: Good to see that your spelling has improved. Keep it up. Too bad you don't have answers to what you postulate. Talk to you later.
Fri, Jun 22 2012, 7:36AM
#13
RE: Gold medals.
Has it never occurred to you that the reviewer, in this case Stephen Johnson, may be right?
He did apologise for not including many recordings and gave a fair assessment of those he did include so what's your problem, merely that he plumped for LSO Live!?
Did it ever occur to anyone that Bryce Morrison might me wrong in his evaluation of the Bronfman/Hatto recording. Liking one but not liking the other when they were the same recording. The BBC promoting British music by British artists on British recording label, all very British what. You may still swallow everyting you are told by the BBC but don't expect eveyone else to!!!
Fri, Jun 22 2012, 8:31AM
#14
RE: Gold medals.
George Szell frequently conducted the LSO and made some quite amazing recordings with them. Tchaikovsky 4, Brahms 1st piano concerto (with Curzon), Handel/Harty Water Music are just three that come to mind. According to one of the players at that time they did not like him - who did? But he got them to play as no other conductor could. Listening to the recordings, it is easy to agree.
Fri, Jun 22 2012, 8:31AM
#15
RE: Gold medals.
George Szell frequently conducted the LSO and made some quite amazing recordings with them. Tchaikovsky 4, Brahms 1st piano concerto (with Curzon), Handel/Harty Water Music are just three that come to mind. According to one of the players at that time they did not like him - who did? But he got them to play as no other conductor could. Listening to the recordings, it is easy to agree.
You get a Gold Medal from me but if I give the reason the board will censor my post.
Has it never occurred to you that the reviewer, in this case Stephen Johnson, may be right?
He did apologise for not including many recordings and gave a fair assessment of those he did include so what's your problem, merely that he plumped for LSO Live!?
Why don't you offer us a positive opinion for once, go on, you can do it, just this once, or are you afraid we may pull your choice and opinions apart?
Yes, of course you are, which makes you a coward as well as a noisome troll.