Gramofile & TRAVIATA
Wed, Mar 31 2010, 10:02AM
I must second the general disappointment over the "replacement" for
Gramofile. Just as one example of the frustrations attendant on trying
to access archive info today, I tried to find any archived retrospective
that there might be on the extensive discography for Verdi's TRAVIATA.
I know and have appreciated the many discography retrospectives that
Gramophone has offered over the years for a number of the operas in the
standard rep (I recall a marvelous TRISTAN retrospective, etc.). Is it
really possible that there has never been a one for TRAVIATA? Strange,
if so.
I'm reasonably familiar with most of the TRAVIATA discography
already, and I've even put up some reflections of my own on my web site
re the top twenty or so sets. But I don't pretend to be exhaustive in
my treatment of what's available. That's why I was very interested in
what a reviewer of Gramophone caliber might say about the discography as
a whole. Was I disappointed when nothing came up!!
Again, how likely is it that a staple of the rep like TRAVIATA has
never been covered in a Gramophone retrospective at all?! Not too
likely, I would think. There must be such a retrospective, only the new
setup simply isn't bringing it up!
With keen disappointment,
Geoffrey Riggs
Wed, Mar 31 2010, 10:04AM
#2
TRAVIATA & Gramofile
My thanks to Martin Cullingford. The article offers a clearly
written overview of most of the finest interpreters, and I'm grateful
for that. Naturally, no two critics will always see things the same way
throughout: for instance, I'm more bothered by Carlos Kleiber's rushed
conducting than is Blyth (and I'm usually a C. Kleiber fan), I find
Lopardo's Alfredo opposite Gheorghiu too muscle-bound, I find Carteri
too effortful, and so on.
On the other hand, I was surprised at the short shrift that Blyth
gives the young Moffo's Violetta, which I have always found one of the
more successful interpretations on disc, while I find that Albanese's
dramatic genius sometimes makes up for much that I find missing in the
Toscanini set. I am in general agreement with his praise of the mature
(relatively) and "fined-down" Violetta of Maria Callas in the mid-'50s,
although I actually prefer the Scala and Lisbon ones to the Covent
Garden. And I am in wholehearted agreement with his singling out of the
young Scotto (on DG) and the Freni, two ravishing performances.
I was most disappointed, though, by his total neglect of both of the
Zeani sets! Although I do find the mid-'50s Callas, the young Scotto
and Freni just as captivating in the title role in their own right, I
actually ended up selecting the later Zeani set as my top choice of all
(with a starrier cast than her first set, featuring Herlea and Buzea as
Germont father and son, under Maestro Bobescu). I selected it as much
because of the consistency of all the principals and the conducting,
plus fairly good sonics, as because of Zeani's Violetta (which is also
quite fine).
It seems to me that, once we get past Callas or Scotto or Freni in
their respective sets (superb as they each are), we enter into a few
question-marks concerning either consistency of colleagues, of
conducting or of sonics. Their respective sets each come awfully close
to satisfactory, but there always seems to be one thing or other that
falls short of that. I didn't expect to find more consistent quality
overall in the second Zeani set, but I did, and it's now my favorite,
even though there are a handful of additional Violettas available whom I
love easily as much.
Because of my being surprised at how well the second Zeani set stood
up in general, I was particularly curious to see how the Gramophone
reviewer would assess the second Zeani set, and I'm now left wondering
if Gramophone has ever reviewed that set at all! Please, do you know?
Many thanks,
Geoffrey Riggs
Wed, Mar 31 2010, 11:09AM
#3
RE: Gramofile & TRAVIATA
It is nice to see that Gramphone are responsive to our needs and have highlighted the Traviata retrospective for us. However, it would be wonderful if the regular retrospective articles could be more easily found in general. My recent attempts to find Mahler symphony appraisals has left me frustrated. I can find 8th and Das Lied Von Der Erde but little else. Any tips on searching?
Wed, Mar 31 2010, 11:46AM
#4
RE: Gramofile & TRAVIATA
It is nice to see that Gramphone are responsive to our needs and have highlighted the Traviata retrospective for us. However, it would be wonderful if the regular retrospective articles could be more easily found in general. My recent attempts to find Mahler symphony appraisals has left me frustrated. I can find 8th and Das Lied Von Der Erde but little else. Any tips on searching?
There has also been a Mahler Symphony No 6, and No 7, Collection - I'll dig them out, tidy them up and post the links for you here soon. Martin
Thu, Apr 1 2010, 2:52AM
#5
RE: Gramofile & TRAVIATA
Martin C, our editor,
It is MOST charming of you to be so responsive. Editors at all the other magazines are actually computers.
One question from me: is there still a version of Gramophone's "Recommended Recordings" on the site, as you had before the makeover?
Thu, Apr 1 2010, 1:32PM
#6
RE: Gramofile & TRAVIATA
Martin C, our editor,
It is MOST charming of you to be so responsive. Editors at all the other magazines are actually computers.
One question from me: is there still a version of Gramophone's "Recommended Recordings" on the site, as you had before the makeover?
Happy to help where I can. We don't have the list on our site, however we used to publish a four-page recommended recording list in the magazine each month. The most recent one was March 2002 which, with the caveat that there are eight subsequent years of new releases, you can find here: recommended recordings. You'll need to download it as a pdf. Martin.
Sat, Apr 3 2010, 12:38AM
#7
RE: TRAVIATA & Gramofile TRAVIATA & Gramofile
Ah - the Traviata problem. So difficult to find an ideal. The finest interpreters of the main roles just don't appear on the same recording although Callas' Lisbon live version is not far off. The finest CD recording is EMI's first transfer of this I would say but it is live and the prompter is a cast member. I haven't heard Zeani's sets so cannot comment. I have excerpts of her in the role which are very fine indeed. Of studio recordings the singers I admire are Cotrubas, Sutherland (yes, even the second one), Scotto, Caballe, Freni, Moffo, De Los Angeles, Bonisolli, Bergonzi, Di Stefano - sadly without Callas, Pavarotti (with Sutherland) Bruson, Zancanaro and Merrill. Muti and Kleiber strike me as the finest conductors.
Tue, Apr 6 2010, 1:21PM
#8
RE: Home
However, it would be wonderful if the regular retrospective articles could be more easily found in general. My recent attempts to find Mahler symphony appraisals has left me frustrated.
Here, as promised, is a link to the tidied-up Mahler 6 Collection, from March 1994.
Tue, Apr 13 2010, 6:58PM
#9
Traviata retrospectives
FWIW, caballe, I put up some thoughts of my own on the TRAVIATA discography at our web site --
http://www.operacast.com/traviata.htm
. I welcome any thoughts on my reflections from readers here, although I'm still disappointed that the Gramophone retrospective, which Martin kindly pointed us to, has no thoughts on either Zeani set.
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
Tue, Apr 13 2010, 11:52PM
#10
RE: Traviata retrospectives Traviata retrospectives
FWIW, caballe, I put up some thoughts of my own on the TRAVIATA discography at our web site --
http://www.operacast.com/traviata.htm
. I welcome any thoughts on my reflections from readers here, although I'm still disappointed that the Gramophone retrospective, which Martin kindly pointed us to, has no thoughts on either Zeani set.
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
Wed, Apr 14 2010, 3:41AM
#11
Verdi retrospectives
Oh, but caballe, I love L. Price's Leonora. You are right. I should say more about her. I should say more about Milanov too! It was just that both Price and Milanov participate in sterling sets where the overall ensemble already merits placing their sets in the very top tier. So there is no spotlighting, at the top, of specific interpreters. Maybe there should be.
There are seven Leonoras I particularly admire: Milanov, Callas (when she's really young), Gencer, L. Price, Tucci, Arroyo and Caballe. Unfortunately, the last two are heard in pirate "live" sets where I find the overall performance(s) uneven, Tucci is heard in an uneven studio set (IMO), Gencer (also on a "live" pirate set) is on a "live" set where overall inspiration is fitful (IMO), and the young Callas is heard on sonically compromised "live" sets that don't do Verdi's dark score full justice and are also saddled with so-so Manricos (even though L.-V. was a superb Manrico at one time). That leaves Milanov and L.Price on superb overall sets whose very consistency ironically leave me with less time to deal with the Leonoras individually.
The "live" Caballe and Arroyo recs. are so obscure as to seem hardly worth mentioning on my reflections page (which is a shame), and Tucci, Gencer and Callas do merit a mention in their slightly less flawed sets, where they are still the chief attraction -- I might be a bit more charitable with Baum today than I am on the reflections page -- http://www.operacast.com/trovatore.htm
Ironically, it's the abundance of riches on the L.Price and Milanov sets that leave them less spotlighted than these others.
My favorite Leonoras in order are
Zinka Milanov
Leyla Gencer
Martina Arroyo/Montserrat Caballe/(_young_) Maria Callas
Leontyne Price
Gabriella Tucci
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
Wed, Apr 14 2010, 9:32PM
#12
RE: Zeani availability
To caballe --
I realize I forgot to respond to your query as to where you might be able to get the second Zeani set. It's at Amazon --
http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Traviata-Constantin-Dumitru/dp/B000001K5B/re...
Warning: another pretty long-winded take on that set can be seen by yours truly on that Amazon page. When I get enthusiastic, I tend to go all the way..........
I've already expressed the hope that there may yet be some take on this set from the writing staff of Gramophone -- perhaps, in some article/piece outside of the Blyth retrosp. (which omits it). But an attempt to uncover some Gramophone write-up on this set via the Search setup now in place here has only yielded one reference: a letter from a reader expressing disappointment at AB's omission of the Zeani set --
http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/October%201999/8/786557/Virginia+Zeani
That seems to be it. I am very grateful for Martin Cullingford's prompt unearthing of the Traviata retrospective, of course. Hopefully, some official Gramophone review of the Zeani set by itself may yet surface.
Best to all,
Geoffrey Riggs
Thu, Apr 15 2010, 6:19PM
#13
RE: Home
To caballe --
I realize I forgot to respond to your query as to where you might be able to get the second Zeani set. It's at Amazon --
http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Traviata-Constantin-Dumitru/dp/B000001K5B/re...
Warning: another pretty long-winded take on that set can be seen by yours truly on that Amazon page. When I get enthusiastic, I tend to go all the way..........
I've already expressed the hope that there may yet be some take on this set from the writing staff of Gramophone -- perhaps, in some article/piece outside of the Blyth retrosp. (which omits it). But an attempt to uncover some Gramophone write-up on this set via the Search setup now in place here has only yielded one reference: a letter from a reader expressing disappointment at AB's omission of the Zeani set --
http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/October%201999/8/786557/Virginia+Zeani
That seems to be it. I am very grateful for Martin Cullingford's prompt unearthing of the Traviata retrospective, of course. Hopefully, some official Gramophone review of the Zeani set by itself may yet surface.
Best to all,
Geoffrey Riggs
Thu, Apr 15 2010, 6:30PM
#14
RE: Verdi retrospectives Verdi retrospectives
Oh, but caballe, I love L. Price's Leonora. You are right. I should say more about her. I should say more about Milanov too! It was just that both Price and Milanov participate in sterling sets where the overall ensemble already merits placing their sets in the very top tier. So there is no spotlighting, at the top, of specific interpreters. Maybe there should be.
There are seven Leonoras I particularly admire: Milanov, Callas (when she's really young), Gencer, L. Price, Tucci, Arroyo and Caballe. Unfortunately, the last two are heard in pirate "live" sets where I find the overall performance(s) uneven, Tucci is heard in an uneven studio set (IMO), Gencer (also on a "live" pirate set) is on a "live" set where overall inspiration is fitful (IMO), and the young Callas is heard on sonically compromised "live" sets that don't do Verdi's dark score full justice and are also saddled with so-so Manricos (even though L.-V. was a superb Manrico at one time). That leaves Milanov and L.Price on superb overall sets whose very consistency ironically leave me with less time to deal with the Leonoras individually.
The "live" Caballe and Arroyo recs. are so obscure as to seem hardly worth mentioning on my reflections page (which is a shame), and Tucci, Gencer and Callas do merit a mention in their slightly less flawed sets, where they are still the chief attraction -- I might be a bit more charitable with Baum today than I am on the reflections page -- http://www.operacast.com/trovatore.htm
Ironically, it's the abundance of riches on the L.Price and Milanov sets that leave them less spotlighted than these others.
My favorite Leonoras in order are
Zinka Milanov
Leyla Gencer
Martina Arroyo/Montserrat Caballe/(_young_) Maria Callas
Leontyne Price
Gabriella Tucci
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
Thu, Apr 15 2010, 7:40PM
#15
Trovatores
Thanks, caballe, for the reminder of the 1968 Schippers perf. I may be in a minority(?), but I personally find Cossutta's Manrico, on the Guadagno set, a sore trial. For me, that simply places it out of the running. If you want to know where I'd say I do draw a line of sorts, I guess it would be after Kurt Baum, whose fairly so-so Manrico (IMO) is just about tolerable at Mexico, where he's in company with Simionato, Callas and Warren at their absolute best. Cossutta simply crosses that line (for me), and although I enjoy both Arkhipova and Caballe a great deal there, they are not enough to compensate, I find (I guess that may seem pretty incorrigible to some).
I've only heard excerpts from the Schippers, and -- again -- I'm in a minority when it comes to the Manrico there as well. No question Tucker has a finer technique than either Baum or Cossutta, but by 1968, I simply find some of his singing too percussive (not always, but much of the time). I enjoy so much of his singing in the early '50s that I wish there were some Manrico of his extant from then. He's still accomplished on the (ca. '60) Price set (her first recorded Trovatore), of course, and he's preferable there to his '68 self, anyway.
Since I've only heard excerpts from the "live" Schippers, the Guadagno Caballe Trovatore is the only one I know complete. Those Schippers excerpts I did hear did not include any Azucena material, and for me the Azucena is even more important than the Leonora (I'm in a minority there too <ducking>). Please, can you tell the board here anything about Franca Mattiucci's Azucena on the "live" Schippers? Many thanks.
For readers here interested in judging for themselves, they can check out Tucker's big scene from this Caballe '68 Trovatore on YouTube at --
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj3Rc_CVDXc
Finally, if caballe gets to listen to the Zeani Traviata soon, might caballe give us some reactions to it for readers here? Again, thanks.
Cheers all,
Geoffrey Riggs
I must second the general disappointment over
the "replacement" for Gramofile. Just as one example of the
frustrations attendant on trying to access archive info today, I tried
to find any archived retrospective that there might be on the extensive
discography for Verdi's TRAVIATA. I know and have appreciated the many
discography retrospectives that Gramophone has offered over the years
for a number of the operas in the standard rep (I recall a marvelous
TRISTAN retrospective, etc.). Is it really possible that there has
never been a one for TRAVIATA? Strange, if so.
Thanks
for your post. We did indeed run a La traviata Collection in August 1999, written by
Alan Blyth. I'm sorry it wasn't easily found, but by way of recompense
I've also made it the current homepage 'Archive Feature', which also includes some links at
the end to where you can download or buy the recommended recordings.
Incidentally,
if anyone has suggestions for other Archive articles you'd like me to
feature on the homepage, I'd be happy to hear them.
Editor, Gramophone