Karajan "The vienna Years"
Mon, Apr 29 2013, 8:44PM
#2
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
"The "Karajan critics" have such extreme views because they want to
fight against this myth, this aura that surrounds him still today,
largely a result of the marketing machinery of the recording industry.
The "Karajan supporters" argue that when you take all that marketing
away you are still left with an extraordinary conductor and musician"(ganymede said)
every one has reason in his exact mesure, dear friend. Of course, we could say that Karajan wasnt a better conductor than Furtwangler....perhaps, but at the same time it must be recognized the following: 1) in first place, that Karajans repertory of works was much more ample than Furts repertory was, focused mainly lke we know in viennese classics; 2) in some works Karajans versions are infinitely superior than similar Furt performances (like Brahms 2nd symphony, for example), and 3) exists certain composers whose works were recorded by Karajan and Furt never played or recorded it, like Honeggers works for example, inclusive Stravinsky. Because of that, in my opinion, the right approach would be a middle term between both positions. Best regards. oscar.olavarria
Mon, Apr 29 2013, 8:53PM
#3
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
complementing what precedes, making a comparison between Karajan and
Furt, of course...oscar.olavarria
Mon, Apr 29 2013, 9:45PM
#4
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
Yes HvK's repertoire was big. But his Russian is dwarfed by Svetlanov. And his English is almost a non-topic.
Even in Brahms, he never conducted ~50% of his works involving orch.
Mon, Apr 29 2013, 9:57PM
#5
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
>tjh212 wrote "but the BPO Planets and the Dvorak Serenade also have errors. "
Yes well that really does hit the nail on the head, the Karajan-Planets came out at the birth of the CD and was often used as a demo CD. It put me off buying a CD player for 8 years. I thought it sounded really vulgar - this recording really does give Karajan a bad name. After that I felt like an outcast, buying the few remaining LPs in various record shops under cover of darkness!
I suppose in the end that was no bad thing, because I have now built up a reasonably sized "heritage" LP collection which I am very proud of (including some HVK recordings). Also recording companies are more inclined to issue recordings taken from live performances which sound more natural. The LSO series is especially good, reasonably priced and many recordings are on SACD.
DSM
Tue, Apr 30 2013, 3:25AM
#6
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
try sending off a rival conductor to the eastern front (and to a certain death)
Yes, you've said this many times, but have provided no source.http://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/February13/
No, I saw that already. I mean something like a serious book, journal paper or historic document.
Tue, Apr 30 2013, 5:51AM
#7
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
So Karajan appears again today, this time in mainstream paper's obit -
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/30/arts/music/janos-starker-master-cellis...
(May be referring to the Karajan/BPO/Starker concert in 1961 - Prokofiev Sinfonia Concertante)
Tue, Apr 30 2013, 11:08AM
#8
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
A tip for the "foes" of Karajan: Stop talking about all his faults and generally about him. At least, you may forget him!
Otherwise, you keep him far from oblivion and you revive the interest for quite a few of us to revisit (with new eagerness) his recordings. Once more!
Parla
Tue, Apr 30 2013, 12:44PM
#9
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
Mista Donut
You don't seem to be letting go of this, so can we concentrate on a specific musical point. It is known that music by Jewish composers (Mahler and Mendelssohn) was discriminated against by the Nazis. But did this continue after the war had ended? I have heard somewhere that this was the case. In particular why did Korngold never gain his full recognition? Is this because he was Jewish, or because he committed the cardinal sin of becoming a film composer, and was Karajan involved in this?
The reason I say this is because it has been suggested that it took a while before Korngold's music was properly heard at the Salzburg festival. Food for thought?
DSM
Tue, Apr 30 2013, 6:00PM
#10
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
Well 11254480 (that's 0xabbad0) was not on his list. 0zawa, M8a, and 10stedt were (Osborne p 638).
Although on p. 713 "HvK was indeed ill, but not so ill to suffer being upstaged. He rapidly changed his mind (on cancelling concert) when he discovered Mehta was on stand-by"
Of course for his inaugural concert, Abbado chose a work HvK never conducted. Has the usual trait of abrupt tempo fluctuation (esp in the last mvt), but splendid despite.
Wed, May 1 2013, 1:54AM
#11
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
Cliche, Mr. Donut, cliche! You keep repeating yourself and making circles. It's time for you to desist, perhaps...(the thread looks fraught enough).
Parla
P.S.: The Maestro cannot die more than once. Time will do the rest, not us.
Wed, May 1 2013, 4:52AM
#12
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
Not so fast. Karajan documentary "2nd Life" will be available soon (Amazon USD 25.00). Already aired in Eu and was to have been available a couple of weeks ago.
Richard Strauss to HvK: 'Just wave your stick around a bit!' He made a gesture like stirring a pudding. p.137
Wed, May 1 2013, 1:54PM
#13
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
Irrelevant, Mista, irrelevant. You seem to be haunted by the Karajan spirit.
Going back to the initiator of the thread, Oscar, I wish to bring to your attention a new SACD of EMI Japan I bought recently with Karajan, in a rare collaboration with l'Orchestre de Paris, performing Ravel's "La Valse, Rhapsodie Espagnole" etc. The Japanese have done an excellent work to reveal what Karajan could manage to get from any Orchestra. The "Rhapsodie" is brilliant indeed. However, I guess it would be extremely difficult to get it in Chile, at a reasonable price.
Parla
Wed, May 1 2013, 4:30PM
#14
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
Also the Paris Orch in the Mozart Triple concerto with HvK as pianist (see Youtube).
K "liked his waltz straight and disliked La Valse intensely" p. 274
Thu, May 2 2013, 10:03AM
#15
RE: Karajan "The vienna Years"
try sending off a rival conductor to the eastern front (and to a certain death)
Yes, you've said this many times, but have provided no source.http://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/February13/
No, I saw that already. I mean something like a serious book, journal paper or historic document.
In almost everyone's recordings of almost everything there are multiple splices. Even most of the so-called live recordings have been spliced together from more than one performance, as well as 'patching' sessions. Why pick on HvK? I thought a poor splice was an indication of poor engineering!
Chris A.Gnostic