Latest Acquisitions
Fri, Jun 22 2012, 5:00PM
#2
RE: Latest Acquisitions
This is, without doubt an astonishing performance even without the last movement and I found that more convincing as Brucknerian than have some I've read.
Having said that I am biased because I do not subscribe to the view that Rattle "micro-manages" the music he conducts or that the quality of the BPO has suffered under his tenure-the orchestra recruit personnel, not the conductor-and when I hear or read that somebody does not like his recordings but prefer him live are the also saying they do not like his live recordings which most, if not all, his recordings with BPO are or are they just voicing the conventional (American?) wisdom of the likes of Hurwitzer?
On my player the recording and Rattle's management enables details to be heard.
Troyen, my own copy of the Rattle Bruckner 9 arrived yesterday and I managed to squeeze in a listen last night.
First impressions are that it is a really good performance. The things that struck me were how well the woodwind writing was brought out (I assume both by the conductor/players and the recording) and how well Rattle managed to sustain the breadth of the work. I am afraid that I am one of those people who have found Rattle a micromanager in the past (though really only in the Mahler recordings I have) but I don't think that is an issue here. In that sense I would say they a step forward form the Brahms symphonies, which I felt were trying a little too hard.
Regarding the final movement I will reserve judgement until I really can get a grasp of how it is put together. It certainly does sound like Bruckner in how it is put together, with the drawing of themes from the previous movements. In the sleeves notes there are comparisns drawn with the 8th symphony - my untutored ears also got me thinking about the Bruckner 5th and the final movement. (I should add that I think the 5th is one of my favourite Bruckner symphonies - it seems one of those least damaged by interpreatation).
In the end the other sensation I had was how I now viewed the adagio differently, if I see the 9th as a four movement work. That may be a nonsense... Anyway next week I have a 12 hour flight so I may sqeeuze in a listen again. Perhaps I'll play the Wellesz first symphony as a companion.
Glad to hear you liked the Ticatti - when it is sale I will snap up a copy. I think I read he was going to do more Berlioz with the same forces (he has been playing the Brahms symphonies with the SCO in the last year or two I think).
Fri, Jun 22 2012, 6:04PM
#3
RE: Latest Acquisitions
Vic, there is no wonder why you should not feel "so much enjoyment" at your current stage of your musical affairs. It's your personal enjoyment and it's all yours!
What I and some others try to say is that it would not hurt and, on the contrary, may enhance your appreciation and even your enjoyment, if you wish to go a bit further in your listening experience. It does not mean you "have to" (as long as you are so happy with your enjoyment), but, you should not blame anyone who may advocate that the promotion of musical education is a good thing that further helps the listening experience.
I fully agree that "great music would be a kind of humanising force, a source of enlightenment...", but we should be able to identify and agree on what "great Music" is and that's a bit difficult, at the present state of affairs, isn't it?
Anyway, keep enjoying your "garden of earthly delights" and don't worry about the "doom and gloom merchants". 400 music products per month, worldwide, makes a good garden, no matter the fruits it gives.
Parla
Fri, Jun 22 2012, 10:01PM
#4
RE: Latest Acquisitions
but, you should not blame anyone who may advocate that the promotion of musical education is a good thing that further helps the listening experience.
I fully agree that "great music would be a kind of humanising force, a source of enlightenment...", but we should be able to identify and agree on what "great Music" is and that's a bit difficult, at the present state of affairs, isn't it?
Well, Parla, while I certainly appreciate the tone of your latest exchange, I have to say that although I know that all's fair in love, war, and propaganda, this is a tad unworthy of you!
When have I ever, or indeed, when would I ever argue against anyone promoting the value of any form of education whatsoever?
But your second point is disingenuous to say the least. Being able "to identify and agree on what great music is" is immaterial if music on any kind acts "as a humanising force, a source of enlightenment" isn't it? Are you trying to sneak in the suggestion that classical music is, and non-classical not? Surely even with your passion for the former, you would not support such a proposition?
Brodsky would. Chris J would, if he thought you did too. But you don't, surely?
It's not only classical music that has power to sooth the savage breast, to be the food of love, to be the bringer of joy, etc., is it?
Vic.
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 12:01AM
#5
RE: Latest Acquisitions
Vic, I'm afraid your history in scorning, making fun with other posters for and diminishing the validity of my, Chris, Uber, JeffYoung's statements along with the view that 'enjoyment' is the key issue in Music, even as an Art, doesn't prove you embrace the idea of what is important to us: more musical education enhances the comprehension, appreciation and,eventually, even enjoyment in Music as an Art.
In the "second part", I underscore the fact that, if we talk about "great music" and not simply about "music", then, we have to understand all of us the same thing, so that this great music (we're talking about) acts "as a humanising force, a source of enlightenment". Otherwise, we simply argue each one of us about the works of (any) music that work for him/her (and those who share his/her views, possibly) that are the "humanising force, etc."
So, I'm not suggesting that Classical Music is the "humanising force, etc." and the non-classical not, but, simply, since you put in the equation the qualitative word "great", we should have a common perception, agreement on what we're talking about, e.g. what and which is this "great" music. Otherwise, we merely say that any music can act "as a humanising force, etc.", but only for those who believe this music is great.
I hope you can get it, after all.
Parla
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 8:34AM
#6
RE: Latest Acquisitions
doesn't prove you embrace the idea of what is important to us: more musical education enhances the comprehension, appreciation and,eventually, even enjoyment in Music as an Art.
A cheap and typical trick. I do not oppose education for its own sake in any area of life, so yet again you invent a position in order to criticise it.
In the "second part", I underscore the fact that, if we talk about "great music" and not simply about "music",
No, what you are really trying to do is to claim some retrospective credibility for an argument you lost so comprehensively when you had to give up on trying to defend the proposition that "greatness is not a value judgement and thus not humanly attributed."
You just can't let it go, can you? You can't even concede that there may be some value, some "humanising factor" in non-classical as well a classical music.
Your obsessive pursuit of this nonsense is pathetic.
Vic.
Sat, Jun 23 2012, 10:58PM
#7
RE: Latest Acquisitions
Vic, I don't resort to any "cheap" tricks, but if you see it like that, it's your problem. One more time, I'm pretty happy that you "do not oppose" (definitely, you don't encourage) education in any area of life (of course, here we talk specifically for musical education). So, I presume you won't resort anymore to any kind of humour about not reading the score, but still enjoying the music, and the other usual "jokes" you share with "like-minded" forum members.
I don't claim "some retrospective credibility for an argument I lost so comprehensively (really? I thought it was two sides with no convergence of views)..." I just responded to your argument that creates an equation : "great music=humanising force, source of enlightenment". If we stick to this equation the unknown X is the "great music". So, I just asked if we know, agree what is great music. Till now, there is no convergence of views, as far as I understand. So, the statement cannot be valid for everyone.
So, it's not that I can't "concede that there may be some value, some 'humanising factor' in non-classical..." What I suggest is that some music (of any genre) may act as "humanising factor, source of enlightenment" for some people. The triumph of subjectivity! In any case, I advocate only about the objectivity of the musical/artistic value of the work of Music. "Humanising factors", etc. are purely subjective attributes by each listener. Nobody will argue with you, if you claim you see the triumph of human love in any song of Paul Simon or if you are so enlightened after a jazz session.
In any case, we don't have to hijack again this thread on the same old issue.
Going back to the subject of the thread, one of the most recent brightest moments of listening enlightenment was the latest release of Challenge, with a stunning SACD recording of Ockeghem and De La Rue Requiem, performed brilliantly by the Cappella Pratensis.
In the same vein, the very recent release of Accent, with Zelenka's fascinating Responsoria pro hebdomada sancta along with the almost sublime Lamentatio Ieremiae Prophetae, made me, once more, realise how an immense contributor to religious music was this composer. The recording is warm and spacious enough.
Parla
Tue, Jun 26 2012, 12:17AM
#8
RE: Latest Acquisitions
Petra wrote
Hi 33! I found my one (so far anyway) CD used at a local store. I did notice though that another company, which I believe was called "Aura" also put out the same disc. Whilst hunting for more information on it, I did look up some more information on Marc Andreae (who was then the "Direttore" of the Orchestra della Radiotelevisione della Svizzera Italiana--apparently from 1969-1991). This is his site (it seems to me anyway. Perhaps I'm wrong?). The CD that I purchased is in the fourth row down from the top and the second one in from the left.
http://www.marcandreae.ch/recordings.html
Interestingly enough, a short while ago whilst trying to find this site again, I ran across some information listed under Google Books. It was for a book on Shostakovich including recordings of his works. It listed the date of the concerto with Starker as 17th February 1972. :-D Now if I could only get so lucky with the other ones on the CD!
The recordings on Ermitage that you own, do they all sound like they were recordings made in the actual radio studio/concert halls (professionally recorded) or do they sound like ones done by someone at the other end of the radio as it were? For me, looking at the back of the CD whilst at the store, it appeared to me that they were legitimately done by the RTSI. Perhaps they didn't have the permission of the performers to release them? I honestly don't know myself. Would be interested to hear from from you or others about this.
BTW, before I forget to ask, any favorite CDs in this lot which you really enjoy?
Best wishes,
Petra
p.s. I believe that this is Ermitage's website too:
http://www.ermitage.it/en/info
Hi Petra thanks for info that Ermitage is still in existence. Your disc is, fom the cover style, the same series as mine but I note none of these are shown on the website. The only one of my recordings still shown (with a different cover) is the Michelangeli Chopin disc but that is not marked on the disc as an RTSI recording unlike the others. It also turned out to be a recording I already had on Music & Arts! I,ve just been listening to a couple of them again including Serkin giving an unsympathetic Schubert impromptu before he launches a violent attack on the Appassionata. The music can take it if one is in the right mood: no doubt the composer would have approved! There's then a rather good Brahms Handel Vars.
I like the Maria Tipo CD (a pianist of whom I've heard little) in a Mozart sonata, Beethoven's Op110 & the Chopin Ballades. Sound is excellent; they certainly sound as if from the radio station's master tapes. The Arrau CD contains a very different Appassionata in, as ever, his grand magesterial aristocratic style with a good Schumann Fantasie.
Tue, Jun 26 2012, 12:43PM
#9
RE: Latest Acquisitions
Petra wrote
Hi 33! I found my one (so far anyway) CD used at a local store. I did notice though that another company, which I believe was called "Aura" also put out the same disc. Whilst hunting for more information on it, I did look up some more information on Marc Andreae (who was then the "Direttore" of the Orchestra della Radiotelevisione della Svizzera Italiana--apparently from 1969-1991). This is his site (it seems to me anyway. Perhaps I'm wrong?). The CD that I purchased is in the fourth row down from the top and the second one in from the left.
http://www.marcandreae.ch/recordings.html
Interestingly enough, a short while ago whilst trying to find this site again, I ran across some information listed under Google Books. It was for a book on Shostakovich including recordings of his works. It listed the date of the concerto with Starker as 17th February 1972. :-D Now if I could only get so lucky with the other ones on the CD!
The recordings on Ermitage that you own, do they all sound like they were recordings made in the actual radio studio/concert halls (professionally recorded) or do they sound like ones done by someone at the other end of the radio as it were? For me, looking at the back of the CD whilst at the store, it appeared to me that they were legitimately done by the RTSI. Perhaps they didn't have the permission of the performers to release them? I honestly don't know myself. Would be interested to hear from from you or others about this.
BTW, before I forget to ask, any favorite CDs in this lot which you really enjoy?
Best wishes,
Petra
p.s. I believe that this is Ermitage's website too:
http://www.ermitage.it/en/info
Hi Petra thanks for info that Ermitage is still in existence. Your disc is, fom the cover style, the same series as mine but I note none of these are shown on the website. The only one of my recordings still shown (with a different cover) is the Michelangeli Chopin disc but that is not marked on the disc as an RTSI recording unlike the others. It also turned out to be a recording I already had on Music & Arts! I,ve just been listening to a couple of them again including Serkin giving an unsympathetic Schubert impromptu before he launches a violent attack on the Appassionata. The music can take it if one is in the right mood: no doubt the composer would have approved! There's then a rather good Brahms Handel Vars.
I like the Maria Tipo CD (a pianist of whom I've heard little) in a Mozart sonata, Beethoven's Op110 & the Chopin Ballades. Sound is excellent; they certainly sound as if from the radio station's master tapes. The Arrau CD contains a very different Appassionata in, as ever, his grand magesterial aristocratic style with a good Schumann Fantasie.
Morning 33! Early day here (catching up on some posting whilst watching Wimbledon).
Thank you very much for your reviews/thoughts on the CDs that you do own by Ermitage. You made me laugh (sympathetically) when you mentioned about already owning a recording but on another label! Wish that I had a photographic memory some days when I go shopping! LOL That and changing the artwork can throw one for a loop--know what I mean?!
Maria Tipo I've heard of too but don't know any of her recordings. I'll have to look into her recordings further....
Best wishes,
Petra
Tue, Jun 26 2012, 5:43PM
#10
RE: Latest Acquisitions
Hi Petra, the only other Maria Tipo disc I have is of the Goldbergs (EMI) which seems OK to me but I admit to being no expert (or massive enthusiast) on Bach's keyboard works. The Michelangeli disc intrigues me as it ends with what is claimed to be a posthumously discovered Chopin waltz which he also plays on his Festival Hall recital on Testament. I've never heard it from anyone else and it always sounds a bit dubious to me....
Regards.
Mon, Jul 2 2012, 11:49AM
#11
RE: Latest Acquisitions
Troyen/Vic your mention of the Delius Masses has prompted me to say Vic if you like the Mass of Life, the Delius Requiem is really another Mass of Life ...
Vic I'd be interested to hear what you think of the Langard - did you see (creep creep crawl crawl to the team) Andrew Mellor's brilliantly written piece on this composer in was it last month's issue?
Yes, I bought the Langgaard on the strength of reviews and have been delighted, both with the unexpectedly accessible and varied music and the Nightingale's passionate playing. A real revelation, this one, and I look forward to the second disc.
The Delius is very satisfying too, and grows on me with each listening session - now three times since purchase. As other Delius I have heard has left me cold, I'm interested in your suggestion of the Requiem, but a search for it is not proving fruitful. Any suggested recordings?
Vic.
Mon, Jul 2 2012, 10:19PM
#12
RE: Latest Acquisitions
Hi Vic, I have 2 recordings of the Delius Requiem; one on the Hickox double CD with Mass of Life and the other a single EMI disc by Meredith Davies with Songs of Farewell etc from Sargent. I don't know if it's still available, it's probably in the new EMI 18 CD Delius box but I guess you won't be getting that!
Have you heard his piano concerto, very much influenced by his time with Grieg rather than in the typical mature Delius style? Go for the revised version though not the original on the Hyperion Romantic Concerto series. The finest recording is by Jean-Rodolphe Kars with Gibson & the LSO on Decca; a superb recording in every respect.
Mon, Jul 2 2012, 11:14PM
#13
RE: Latest Acquisitions
I have to say that although I know that all's fair in love, war, and propaganda, this is a tad unworthy of you; Surely even with your passion for the former, you would not support such a proposition?
Brodsky would. Chris J would, if he thought you did too. But you don't, surely?
It's not only classical music that has power to sooth the savage breast, to be the food of love, to be the bringer of joy, etc., is it?
Vic.
Typical Vic, always ready to feed a pile of rubbish to us.
Tue, Jul 3 2012, 7:18AM
#14
RE: Latest Acquisitions
Have you heard his piano concerto, very much influenced by his time with Grieg rather than in the typical mature Delius style? Go for the revised version though not the original on the Hyperion Romantic Concerto series. The finest recording is by Jean-Rodolphe Kars with Gibson & the LSO on Decca; a superb recording in every respect.
Thanks for your recommendation, 33lp, I'll order it in my next batch.
A kindness here that shines like a good deed in a naughty world.
Vic.
Tue, Jul 3 2012, 8:06AM
#15
RE: Latest Acquisitions
Hi Vic. Glad to see you are still with us. The only Requiem recording I have by Delius is the one on HMV Greensleeve vinyl with Meredith Davies (it's over on the Requiem channel).
Thanks for that on the Langaard. Must explore him. So much good music and so little time!
The Delius Piano Concerto was given away as a freebie last month by that most liberal of magazines, the copy of which will come in useful when we next build a bonfire and dance around it!
Mark
Great minds think alike - Vic, Troyen and JKH! I found myself in my local HMV last week looking at the 1612 Vespers CD and thinking , is that the one to be done on the proms this summer and having checked of course it is! It is a late night prom Vic/JKH on 22nd August with I Fagiolini. I'll be popping back to get it this weekend.
Troyen/Vic your mention of the Delius Masses has prompted me to say Vic if you like the Mass of Life, the Delius Requiem is really another Mass of Life as it celebrates living to the full rather than the passing of life (have a look at near the start of the Requiem thread for a quick soundbite of the lyrics if you haven't already done so).
Vic I'd be interested to hear what you think of the Langard - did you see (creep creep crawl crawl to the team) Andrew Mellor's brilliantly written piece on this composer in was it last month's issue?
JKH:
'I trust though, Vic, you didn't come under the sway of lowly human emotions and just 'enjoy' the music, but embarked on a prior course of intensive academic study, consultation with acknowledged musical experts and detailed score-reading to prepare yourself adequately for a semi-mystical experience held, of course, in absolute silence. It's the only way, apparently'.
Very well put JKH. Our new credo...And don't forget that one must continue to phone wise old profs frequently...