Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Wed, Nov 2 2011, 11:11AM
#2
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Well, in the end it's a Dvorak symphony. so it really doesn't matter which option you choose. After one playing it will be on ebay or in the bin. Dvorak was a second rate Brahms at best, at best being some of his piano trios, string quartets and of course the cello concerto. He's a wishy-washy footnote in musical history. His symphonies belong with those of Tchiakovsky's, background music at Tesco or on Classical FM.
Well, I enjoy Dvorak and Tchaikovsky symphonies so what does that make me?
Apart from "a left-wing liberal middle-class Stalinist cesspit-of-a- BBC-loving fibbing false-as-Lenny Bernstein type with an intellectual hippy experimental backside", that is?
I do enjoy your posts "Doctor"B. You do for music criticism what Ian Paisley does for religion.
Vic.
Wed, Nov 2 2011, 11:19AM
#3
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Over the top, over the egg, over and over, Dr. Brodsky.
I always wanted to reach out other members of the Forum to seek for some kind of common approach, but with you...anyway, it hopeless, I'm afraid.
So, now Dvorak is a "footnote" of Classical Music. His Symphonies are (along with Tchaikovsky!) second rate (maybe compared to Brahms, supposedly a first rate composer and symphonist). Just for the record, I find myself compelled to say that at least the last three Symphonies of Dvorak are second to none. They have brilliant (in the full sense of the word) orchestration (more impressive than Brahms), a wealth of inventive melodic lines even in the bass (you can sing even the bass), amazing rhythms and enough form to support all that. Of course, his form is not as strict and consistent as the very stern German school, but to me, to musicians, conductors and anybody who happens to know and enjoy music, Dvorak is a treasure to cherish.
Anyhow, Dr. Brodsky, if you don't get it that way, let's say: As You like it!
I wonder if in some other (future) thread there might be any ghost of a chance to agree on something.
Parla
Wed, Nov 2 2011, 11:33AM
#4
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
It's pretty far-fetched and maybe a little naive to think that there are backroom deals to fix Building a Library choices - especially when you listen to the analysis offered.
However, I do think the LSO have done a fine job at creating an illusion that they're the de-facto, untouchable 'best' orchestra in the UK. Which, despite the many fine evenings of music I've enjoyed courtesy of them, is utter nonsense.
Their Nielsen 1 a few weeks ago was one of the poorest, most lacklustre and frankly un-musical performances I've heard. Compare that to all the balance, texture, nuance and deliacy you get from orchestras including the Halle, Philharmonia and LPO.
That said, after the interval Colin Davis did preside over a very beautiful Beethoven PC3.
Wed, Nov 2 2011, 4:02PM
#5
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
It's pretty far-fetched and maybe a little naive to think that there are backroom deals to fix Building a Library choices - especially when you listen to the analysis offered.
Andrew, far-fetched though that may be, it is nonetheless not the most outlandish conspiracy theory to emerge from planet Brodsky and its sole occupant, the good Doctor. As you will have gathered from others, he does not have a vast band of followers, but that may change when NASA restarts its manned deep space exploration programme.
Turning to music (sorry about that), I agree that the LSO, great orchestra that it is, has been quite successful in the hype department. I have been to more than the odd ropey performance from them over the years, including some conducted by Sir Colin (whom I generally admire greatly). There again, I've been to the odd performance by the Berlin Phil that's left me rather underwhelmed.
And on the subject of Dvorak, I've spent a highly entertaining morning comparing the Beecham, Kubelik and Davis/Concertgebouw versions (courtesy of the astonishing Spotify premium service which I've only just discovered) and have just finished off with the LSO/Kertész 8th, a performance I’ve been meaning to get for years but somehow have never got around to. A fine performance of a wonderful work and a superb recording to boot. Brash? Not for this listener.
JKH
Wed, Nov 2 2011, 4:17PM
#6
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
far-fetched and maybe a little naive
But that's what forums do best, isn't it?
Wed, Nov 2 2011, 5:14PM
#7
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
This is the same BBC that fixed phone-in competitions on Blue Peter. I can just see the poor little kiddies faces now, tears streaming down their faces 'but daddy why did those middle class London liberals cheat me out of my prize' I don't know sweetheart but you can bet money was involved !!!!!
Wed, Nov 2 2011, 5:20PM
#8
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
This is the same BBC that fixed phone-in competitions on Blue Peter. I can just see the poor little kiddies faces now, tears streaming down their faces 'but daddy why did those middle class London liberals cheat me out of my prize' I don't know sweetheart but you can bet money was involved !!!!!
I rest my case...
Wed, Nov 2 2011, 10:43PM
#9
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
If you rest your case, Simon, on Doctrine Brodsky, you may rest assured we are all convinced, impressed and much more interested.
Anyhow, fortunately, Dvorak, Sir Colin Davis and the LSO are way above any "conspiracy" theory, vile intricacies and any other morbid thoughts. You see they serve the Music, a value that cannot be degraded by human frailty. The point is: no matter what, music still prevails. So focus on It!
Parla
Thu, Nov 3 2011, 1:41AM
#10
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
And there is me thinking that Brahms was a second rate Brahms (the sugary sentimentality that is the 2nd PC, for example).
So, perhaps the Brodskysaurus can tell us what he does like and risk his taste being wiped all over the proverbial floor.
Thu, Nov 3 2011, 10:01AM
#11
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
This thread has cheered me up no end...still I do worry that he's not a real Doctor.
Thu, Nov 3 2011, 10:47AM
#12
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Yes I can see that little smile on your face Martian Opera, are you a real martian though!
Thu, Nov 3 2011, 12:39PM
#13
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
I do enjoy your posts "Doctor"B. You do for music criticism what Ian Paisley does for religion.
Vic.
...or indeed for music criticism.
Thu, Nov 3 2011, 4:06PM
#14
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
There is no such a thing as "criticism" in Music or Art, in general, Simon. There are music critics, who judge the work in question, provided they have the Authority, based on their credentials and expertise, to do so.
Besides, we should not forget what Sibelius claimed : "There have never been built a statue for any music critic. Only for composers and rarely for performers".
Parla
Thu, Nov 3 2011, 4:17PM
#15
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
There is no such a thing as "criticism" in Music or Art, in general, Simon. There are music critics, who judge the work in question, provided they have the Authority, based on their credentials and expertise, to do so.
Besides, we should not forget what Sibelius claimed : "There have never been built a statue for any music critic. Only for composers and rarely for performers".
Parla
So let's play a pointless game of semantics.
What authority have you to support your pretentious opinion?
Was Sibelius judging music critics and, if so, what authority, credentials and expertise did he possess to come to such a conclusion or was he peeved that his music was being rubbished again?
Well, in the end it's a Dvorak symphony. so it really doesn't matter which option you choose. After one playing it will be on ebay or in the bin. Dvorak was a second rate Brahms at best, at best being some of his piano trios, string quartets and of course the cello concerto. He's a wishy-washy footnote in musical history. His symphonies belong with those of Tchiakovsky's, background music at Tesco or on Classical FM.