Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Thu, Nov 3 2011, 10:54PM
#2
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
There is no such thing as 'Art'. It's just a word the middle class give to things they don't understand.
Commented Dr Art Brodsky earlier today.
JKH
Thu, Nov 3 2011, 11:02PM
#3
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
My latest comment has gone to 'the mods'. They must have picked up on vile and diatribe which is pervading this whole forum!
Thu, Nov 3 2011, 11:42PM
#4
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
..... and the sooner it's stamped out the better I say
Fri, Nov 4 2011, 12:32AM
#5
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Perfect, Dr. Brodsky! With your "creativity" and "inventiveness" to make up doctrines (your innovative definition or perception of "Art" is exemplary), you accidentally produced an answer to another huge thread in the "General Discussion" (Searching for God in Classical Music).
I have to admit it is truly extraordinary how you throw so many "bold" statements without caring how to support them. Of course, they are...doctrines (your Dr.). Somehow, despite some dire effects, at least to some of us (for which, apparently, you seem to have no concern whatsoever), these statements end up to become entertaining. Simply, playing a mind game, I have to say, if Art does exist only as a pretext of anything the middle class cannot understand, then, music, as an art form also does not exist, but only for the same purpose. So, what's the point of so much discussion for something that does not exist and we do not understand? Of course, Dr. Br., as a non middle class, maybe he can even comprehend the non-existing art form of music and he may enlighten us. If I may guess, he might tell us it is pure politics (which is another term for the upper class to put everything it cannot justify).
As for Troyen, I don't wish to go to what you call "pointless game of semantics". Simply, because it's not a matter of semantics but rather of substance and facts: a) Grammophone does not dare to call his "judgements" as anything like critique but it insists on the term "review" and his "critics" are called "reviewers" and they are supposed to have the expertise, etc. for that. b) Sibelius simply stated a fact of life, unless you know any statue of any critic, reviewer, or even scholar of music. On the other, there are quite a few statues even of second rate or underrated composers or performers, including Sibelius himself.
Wahoo, what a thread! (out of two introductory lines!).
Parla
Fri, Nov 4 2011, 1:11AM
#6
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Music exists obviously, Art doesn't. It is a meaningless word.
Fri, Nov 4 2011, 1:22AM
#7
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Perfect, Dr. Brodsky! With your "creativity" and "inventiveness" to make up doctrines (your innovative definition or perception of "Art" is exemplary), you accidentally produced an answer to another huge thread in the "General Discussion" (Searching for God in Classical Music).
I have to admit it is truly extraordinary how you throw so many "bold" statements without caring how to support them. Of course, they are...doctrines (your Dr.). Somehow, despite some dire effects, at least to some of us (for which, apparently, you seem to have no concern whatsoever), these statements end up to become entertaining. Simply, playing a mind game, I have to say, if Art does exist only as a pretext of anything the middle class cannot understand, then, music, as an art form also does not exist, but only for the same purpose. So, what's the point of so much discussion for something that does not exist and we do not understand? Of course, Dr. Br., as a non middle class, maybe he can even comprehend the non-existing art form of music and he may enlighten us. If I may guess, he might tell us it is pure politics (which is another term for the upper class to put everything it cannot justify).
As for Troyen, I don't wish to go to what you call "pointless game of semantics". Simply, because it's not a matter of semantics but rather of substance and facts: a) Grammophone does not dare to call his "judgements" as anything like critique but it insists on the term "review" and his "critics" are called "reviewers" and they are supposed to have the expertise, etc. for that. b) Sibelius simply stated a fact of life, unless you know any statue of any critic, reviewer, or even scholar of music. On the other, there are quite a few statues even of second rate or underrated composers or performers, including Sibelius himself.
Wahoo, what a thread! (out of two introductory lines!).
Parla
Whoa, look who's calling the kettle black.
Anyway, putting that sweeping (another) statement aside, much as I enjoy your efforts to extricate yourself from the mess of invective you drop yourself into...Sibelius is second rate, is he?
What expertise dee-daa-dee-daa do you possess to reach such a conclusion?
Here's a statue of a music critic: Berlioz!
As for the Brodskysaurus, I'm not middle-class, they wouldn't have me, so I understand Art don't I. It's Art, in'it?!
Fri, Nov 4 2011, 10:25AM
#8
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Troyen, I really don't know how you jump to your conclusions, but, anyhow, once more:
a) I never implied Sibelius is second rate; I simply reiterated what he stated about "critics". The only conclusion I may come to is that he either wanted to scorn or shrug off the so called "critics" (of his time).
b) The statue of Berlioz you refer to was built on account of his virtues as a "critic" or by virtue of his great reputation as a composer?
As for Dottore Brodsky, how "obviously does music exist" and in which way "art is a meaningless word"?
Parla
Fri, Nov 4 2011, 11:29AM
#9
DrBrodsky wrote:...are you a
...are you a real martian though!
lol...touche...yes and we get the World Service!
Fri, Nov 4 2011, 1:36PM
#10
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Music must exist Parla, look at the top of the page. Gramophone The world's authority on classical MUSIC since 1923. I can't believe even you would take the trouble to write on a forum about something that didn't exist ! You really are hard work sometimes Parla.
Fri, Nov 4 2011, 2:55PM
#11
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
I never implied anywhere and in any possible way that music does not exist. I just asked on which grounds it happens to exist and Art not. And you come, caro dottore, to give me as evidence the logo of Gramophone and the existence of this forum to prove that music is actually alive and well. So, in this kind of syllogism, since there are quite a few magazines and forums on Art, the latter should exist as well. And if tomorrow, some people create a magazine and a forum on divinity, God should exist too. Yippee, we found it!
Perfect, Dr. Brodsky, what else is in the quiver?
Parla
Fri, Nov 4 2011, 3:06PM
#12
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
First of all Parla, I like Haagen Daas Ice Cream and would never touch Carte D'or and scondly I would never buy a magazine which had the words 'ART', 'GOD' or 'BBC' in it. They are all myths, the first one to keep the middle class in order and the other two to keep the working class in order. I do like Quavers though, but only the cheese ones.
Fri, Nov 4 2011, 3:12PM
#13
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Troyen, I really don't know how you jump to your conclusions, but, anyhow, once more:
a) I never implied Sibelius is second rate; I simply reiterated what he stated about "critics". The only conclusion I may come to is that he either wanted to scorn or shrug off the so called "critics" (of his time).
b) The statue of Berlioz you refer to was built on account of his virtues as a "critic" or by virtue of his great reputation as a composer?
As for Dottore Brodsky, how "obviously does music exist" and in which way "art is a meaningless word"?
Parla
You approved of Sibelius' comment on critics.
I am, therefore, supplying you and Sibelius with a cast iron, nay, bronze example. QED.
Fri, Nov 4 2011, 4:06PM
#14
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
So, eventually, everything is in your square mind, well fit, Dr.Brodsky. No evidence whatsoever. Only statements of any kind, here and there. Now, GOD, ART and BBC (two notions and an existing institution) are in the same basket, called "myths"! Speaking of myths, by the way, do you happen to know the one on the "Bed of Procrustes" or "the Procrustean bed"? It fits you as a glove!
I think we reached a point to simply say : " As You Like It"!
Good luck and so long,
Parla
Fri, Nov 4 2011, 4:56PM
#15
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
I suppose I'm a little late to the argument (my part of the States has no electrical power for a week now), but I can submit that it is a Yank's opinion that if Sir Colin is enjoying a little critical indulgence now from the British critics, it's long overdue. I think he was always better appreciated in Amsterdam, Germany, Boston and New York than he was at home for much of his career.
That said, I loathe Dvorak's 8th as well as the acoustics on much of LSO Live's product. I am very happy with Sir Colin's Dvorak 7th from Philips; I'd heard him conduct the symphony in New York and Boston years ago and can aver that his reading has been consistent, powerful and rich with insights. I am not a Dvorak scholar and have been so content with that Dvorak 7 from Amsterdam I've not purchased many other versions.
There has always been sort of a coziness with the British musical press and its "assessment" of local artists and institutions compared with the rest of the musical world. [Part of the elevation accorded to a certain generation of British singers pertained to the plethora of operatic recordings being centered in London during the 60s and 70s.] I don't think this is nefarious or even unexpected.
Years ago Davis praised the polish and polyglot expertise (and virtuosity) of American orchestras compared to those in London, and probably got a lot of hell for it. Yet standards have probably evolved since. We've been very lucky to have had Davis appear here as often as he has, and I truly hope the recent Missa Solemnis was not his final performance here. I think it's fair to say that unlike British critics in the past, we've always appreciated Davis here.
Just my thoughts.
There is no such thing as 'Art'. It's just a word the middle class give to things they don't understand.