Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 12:28AM
#2
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Beethoven Symphony No6 tomorrow, don't tell me it's going to be the LSO again. Surely the BBC don't think we are that stupid.
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 1:56AM
#3
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
I suppose I'm a little late to the argument (my part of the States has no electrical power for a week now), but I can submit that it is a Yank's opinion that if Sir Colin is enjoying a little critical indulgence now from the British critics, it's long overdue. I think he was always better appreciated in Amsterdam, Germany, Boston and New York than he was at home for much of his career.
That said, I loathe Dvorak's 8th as well as the acoustics on much of LSO Live's product. I am very happy with Sir Colin's Dvorak 7th from Philips; I'd heard him conduct the symphony in New York and Boston years ago and can aver that his reading has been consistent, powerful and rich with insights. I am not a Dvorak scholar and have been so content with that Dvorak 7 from Amsterdam I've not purchased many other versions.
There has always been sort of a coziness with the British musical press and its "assessment" of local artists and institutions compared with the rest of the musical world. [Part of the elevation accorded to a certain generation of British singers pertained to the plethora of operatic recordings being centered in London during the 60s and 70s.] I don't think this is nefarious or even unexpected.
Years ago Davis praised the polish and polyglot expertise (and virtuosity) of American orchestras compared to those in London, and probably got a lot of hell for it. Yet standards have probably evolved since. We've been very lucky to have had Davis appear here as often as he has, and I truly hope the recent Missa Solemnis was not his final performance here. I think it's fair to say that unlike British critics in the past, we've always appreciated Davis here.
Just my thoughts.
Oh, here we go again. If I had a dollar for every time I've read an American stating that the British always favour British artists I'd have enough money to bail out Greece and yet you offer as an exception to your received opinion Sir Colin Davis. Where on earth do you get your perceptions from?
Sir Colin has been around a long time, been in charge of both of the main London opera houses, taken charge of the LSO twice, had a memorable stint at the BBC and is, arguably, the World's leading conductor of Berlioz and Tippett (but nobody is perfect).
Anyone who had the good fortune to catch his Missa Solemnis at the Proms this year will understand why Sir Colin is held in such high regard here.
Now I await the first clown to come on and rubbish the man, for shame.
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 2:00AM
#4
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Beethoven Symphony No6 tomorrow, don't tell me it's going to be the LSO again. Surely the BBC don't think we are that stupid.
I'd laugh like a drain if they did.
Why don't you boycott the organisation you hate? Remember, those radio waves, especially the digital ones, can get inside your head and turn you into a reasonable human bean.
Access Presto Classical afterwards as they will have the choice on special offer or one of us will tell you.
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 2:04AM
#5
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
..... are you joking. I never miss CD review and 'Building a Library'. Saturday wouldn't be saturday without it. Radio alarm set and tuned in to 90.4.
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 4:45PM
#6
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Troyen wrote "now I await the first clown to come and rubbish the man for shame".
Well from what little I've heard of him, mainly radio broadcasts, he's not my cup of tea, no doubt because I never liked his recording of Harold in Italy with Menuhin which I bought in the dim distant past when a student and it put me off for good. A bit later I got his Mozart clarinet concerto with Brymer c/w the flute and harp concerto and I think the accompaniment rather pedestrian compared to the loving care and affection from Beecham with Brymer or Maag with de Peyer. Admittedly very limited exposure, put off by bad first impressions.
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 4:49PM
#7
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
His Sibelius set of symphonies on Philips is excellent.
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 4:55PM
#8
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
If the British establishment favours British artists how come hardly any British orchestras, Halle excepted, have a British principal conductor whilst several British conductors hold posts abroad? What was Beecham's quip? "Why do we emply so many third rate foreign conductors when we have so many second rate British ones".
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 8:07PM
#9
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
If there was ever a third rate British conductor then it was Beecham. The guy was a joke, if it hadn't been for daddies money this man would have been nothing. He sugar coated works to appeal to the British public. He wasn't a conductor, he was a Bernstein.
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 9:40PM
#10
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Whilst I have no intention of entering a pointless and fatuous argument with Dr B over the merits of Beecham and Bernstein I would ask him why such third rate rubbish conductors were amongst the most popular and best selling recording artists of their time and given such attention by the record companies, still selling today and with several Beecham recordings on EMI's Great Recordings of the century. I can only assume this is because the majority of the record buying public are buffoons without Dr B's discerning taste.
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 9:52PM
#11
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Popular - The X-Factor, Cliff Richard, Beecham, Hoodies, Bernstein, Mexican food, Eastenders, Reality TV, Manchester United, Underpants above belt level, Carrying a knife, saying 'innit', drinking 4 litres of cidre a day, living on welfare, living on a council estate .........That's popular
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 11:06PM
#12
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Bravo, "Dr". Br.! Eventually, you proved that soon lunacy will prevail. For the time being, the few of us (or as many as we are) will still keep defending the values of music and Art, which, unfortunately for you, does exist. (In your perplexed mind, music exists but Art not, while music is one of the Performing Arts; so, the part exists, but the whole not! Brilliant!).
Keep on teasing, annoying, tiring, offending our minds and feelings...In the end, it's all a sort of low entertainment. However, whenever you send some "sober", "quite" posts on the substance of music, you could be a very interesting contributor to any debate. Your post on the Bax thread was pertinent, useful and quite interesting. So, it's up to you, anyway...
Parla
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 11:19PM
#13
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Parla, stop thinking you have to add 'art' to music. they are not twin towns. Music can be great, good, trash, important, good to dance to, but I don't know were 'art' comes into it. Painting can be, well all these things too, but I don't recognise the word 'art'. What are you trying to say with the word 'art' that you can't say using real words, with real meanings.
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 11:24PM
#14
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
Where on earth do you get your perceptions from?
Probably from living outside the UK. As I've said before on this forum, it's not a British trait, it's world wide. Try watching something like the Olympics outside your own country. You'd swear it was a different competition. Most of the music press is pro-British because it's based in Britain. Go to the Classicstoday website and you'll get an American slant. Go to Tierra del Fuego and if they have music critics, they're probably biased too. There's no harm in it, you just need to apply a filter.
As for Colin Davis, I find early and late Davis recordings two different kettles of fish. Ground-breaking and still top-of-the-heap recordings of Berlioz, some great Mozart, a classic Beethoven 7 forty or so years ago. But whatever he's trying to do with Sibelius these days totally escapes me.
Sat, Nov 5 2011, 11:36PM
#15
RE: Let's hear it for Sir Colin
My point exactly. His Philips Sibelius is great, maybe greater than we should have expected from Colin Davis. Then along comes a Sibelius cycle with the LSO and suddenly it is the best thing since sliced bread. It isn't a patch on his Philips set, but it is new, it is with the LSO. Music critics want you to buy new CD's. it keeps them in a job and they can be, well, persuaded shall we say.
I suppose I'm a little late to the argument (my part of the States has no electrical power for a week now), but I can submit that it is a Yank's opinion that if Sir Colin is enjoying a little critical indulgence now from the British critics, it's long overdue. I think he was always better appreciated in Amsterdam, Germany, Boston and New York than he was at home for much of his career.
That said, I loathe Dvorak's 8th as well as the acoustics on much of LSO Live's product. I am very happy with Sir Colin's Dvorak 7th from Philips; I'd heard him conduct the symphony in New York and Boston years ago and can aver that his reading has been consistent, powerful and rich with insights. I am not a Dvorak scholar and have been so content with that Dvorak 7 from Amsterdam I've not purchased many other versions.
There has always been sort of a coziness with the British musical press and its "assessment" of local artists and institutions compared with the rest of the musical world. [Part of the elevation accorded to a certain generation of British singers pertained to the plethora of operatic recordings being centered in London during the 60s and 70s.] I don't think this is nefarious or even unexpected.
Years ago Davis praised the polish and polyglot expertise (and virtuosity) of American orchestras compared to those in London, and probably got a lot of hell for it. Yet standards have probably evolved since. We've been very lucky to have had Davis appear here as often as he has, and I truly hope the recent Missa Solemnis was not his final performance here. I think it's fair to say that unlike British critics in the past, we've always appreciated Davis here.
Just my thoughts.