LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
Wed, Oct 10 2012, 9:53AM
Hi,
As most Anglophile classical collectors I was initially overjoyed when the LYRITA recordings re-appeared on the market after a long hiatus. My enthusiasm was a bit muted when I discovred that the new releases, although sold at premium price, were not properly pressed CDs but just CD-R's. Well, they did work - at first.
Now that I've started re-reipping some of those discs, purchased about 3 years ago and stored safely away from dust and light, my trepidation turned to horror as several of these CD-R's are no longer readable or rippable. Sincethe NIMBUS and some other minor label releases) are virtuzally the same product CD-R's, I expect those to malfunction very shortly, too.
This is a disgrace - a rip-off of collectors!
Wed, Oct 10 2012, 11:06AM
#2
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
Hi,
As most Anglophile classical collectors I was initially overjoyed when the LYRITA recordings re-appeared on the market after a long hiatus. My enthusiasm was a bit muted when I discovred that the new releases, although sold at premium price, were not properly pressed CDs but just CD-R's. Well, they did work - at first.
Now that I've started re-reipping some of those discs, purchased about 3 years ago and stored safely away from dust and light, my trepidation turned to horror as several of these CD-R's are no longer readable or rippable. Sincethe NIMBUS and some other minor label releases) are virtuzally the same product CD-R's, I expect those to malfunction very shortly, too.
This is a disgrace - a rip-off of collectors!
Hello! Not good to hear [Or not as the case may be]! Strangely enough, I just purchased a Lyrita CD a few days ago. It was a used one and I think is the "real deal". I take it that your were referring to older releases that had gone NLA vs. these companies' whole catalogues? Or not?
Also, can you play them on your regular listening equipment and only have problems when you try and listen to them on your computer or car?
I have one CD that I purchased via MDT from Meridian which even though it wasn't listed as such, appears to me to be a CD-R. Note: MDT also initially told me that it was NLA, so I contacted Meridian and they said that it was available; I then ordered it from MDT.
Arkivmusic also does CD-Rs (properly licensed from the appropriate sources). So far, I've only purchased one (a year or so ago I believe?). I'll try and play that and the Meridian one in the near future and report back if I have any problems.
Hopefully these labels have fixed whatever the problem was?
Sound, have you tried contacting any of the companies with whose product you've had problems with? If so, what have been the results?
Good luck!
Petra
Wed, Oct 10 2012, 11:42AM
#3
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
It was a used one and I think is the "real deal". I take it that your were referring to older releases that had gone NLA vs. these companies' whole catalogues? Or not?
No, I mean the post-2006 ones. The old releases, prior to the decade-and-a-half hiatus, were proper pressings. The new ones I purchased (all at reliable dealers like crotchek.co.uk or main street shops like HMV and Harold Moore's in London) were ALL CD-R's (easily identifiable by the slightly greenish sheen and noticeable edge where the music "ends" on the disc). The same is true of all post-Nimbus Nimbus releases, and some other small labels. They ONLY make CDRs because they're cheap.
Wed, Oct 10 2012, 12:02PM
#4
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
There is an issue here. For one thing, if sold as CDs these must conform to the red book - CD-Rs do not and therefore likely break trades description.
Perhaps Gramophone could investigate this issue for us - ?
Wed, Oct 10 2012, 12:45PM
#5
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
It was a used one and I think is the "real deal". I take it that your were referring to older releases that had gone NLA vs. these companies' whole catalogues? Or not?
No, I mean the post-2006 ones. The old releases, prior to the decade-and-a-half hiatus, were proper pressings. The new ones I purchased (all at reliable dealers like crotchek.co.uk or main street shops like HMV and Harold Moore's in London) were ALL CD-R's (easily identifiable by the slightly greenish sheen and noticeable edge where the music "ends" on the disc). The same is true of all post-Nimbus Nimbus releases, and some other small labels. They ONLY make CDRs because they're cheap.
Sound,
I didn't know that Lyrita "took a long break"! Were they bought out by someone? So, anything with a date of 2007 and on is a CD-R?
Arkiv is good about listing their CD-Rs as being theirs and not put out by the original label; however, I just looked at their site (now with a new look!) and I didn't see anything about them being listed as CD-Rs though I do recall reading that elsewhere in an article about them....interesting! Anyway, I'm glad that they do put out CDs which are now NLA (and can be quite expensive to find used). They also are apparently putting out ones that have never made it to CD; I haven't tried any of those--I wonder how the sound is? And if they identify those as such? Anyway, I do hope that they hold up!
And yes, I'd love to hear from the folks at Gramophone as to what they know/can find out!
Best wishes,
Petra
Wed, Oct 10 2012, 1:11PM
#6
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
....and a p.s. to the above. Here is an article about what Arkivmusic is about (I couldn't reread the full Boston Globe article that I had originally found and read when I was looking to find out more about them before ordering from them).
http://www.stereophile.com/news/060407arkiv/
By the way, I just found out that they had been bought out (I think in 2008?) by Steinway! And as a further note (should you ever be tempted), they were very helpful and nice to deal with when I once had a problem.
Best, Petra
Wed, Oct 10 2012, 2:21PM
#7
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
I didn't know that Lyrita "took a long break"! Were they bought out by someone? So, anything with a date of 2007 and on is a CD-R?
Lyrita has a checkered history. Originally, they were an official British label (from the 1950s) exclusively devoted to providing new recordings of English classical music. When the LP era ended, they issued a number of CD re-relases of their older albums, as well as some new recordings. There was a lot of British tax-payers' money behind those productions. That all ended when a businessman acquired the back catalog but then did not actually release any of the material, and refused to re-sell it. Only in the early 2000s a deal was struck that would ultimately result in the release of the entire back catalogue, inclduing former vinyl-only albums. Since about two years ago the label has been libeth - there are no new recordings forthcoming, but the catalogue is still available.
Wed, Oct 10 2012, 8:59PM
#8
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
I have e-mailed Lyrita for their comments on this. As the founder, Richard Itter, is still in the picture I hope he'll reply to this. I have wondered why their latest pressings, of which I have most of them, looked differently from the earlier ones.
Thu, Oct 11 2012, 9:33AM
#9
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
BTW, another label that uses CD-R's is BSM (British Music Society).
Sat, Oct 13 2012, 9:31AM
#10
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
I emailed Lyrita a few days ago, too. So far: No response!
Mon, Oct 15 2012, 4:48PM
#11
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
In general I have no problem with companies selling CD-Rs as long as they make this clear, because they need to be more carefully looked after than pressed CDs (I always back-up any CD-Rs I buy). In many cases these days it is the only economic way for small companies to re-release material. All the rereleased (2006-) Lyrita recordings I have are CD-Rs except the Bax 1 and 7 disc, which is a pressed CD (perhaps they had some left in stock?)
As far as I know, all the various commercial CD-Rs I have on various labels including those on Lyrita are still functioning. So I find it a little surprising that you have a batch fail. Have they really never been exposed to a humid climate, heat or strong light, or do you have a problem drive as someone suggested above?
Ted
Mon, Oct 15 2012, 5:55PM
#12
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
I just received a very long, detailed response from Antony Smith of Wyastone Estates. Since I don't know how to transfer the reply to this site I will just summarize it. In short, they are CD-Rs manufactured to the highest standards by Sony in Austria. The quality of these discs is as good or better than a regular CD and should last a minimum of 35 years. They will be replaced free of charge if any become unplayable. If anyone knows how to transfer an e-mail to this site please let me know and I'll do it. I feel very comfortable with his reply and I think we can all rest easier now.
Mon, Oct 15 2012, 6:20PM
#13
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
I just received a very long, detailed response from Antony Smith of Wyastone Estates. Since I don't know how to transfer the reply to this site I will just summarize it. In short, they are CD-Rs manufactured to the highest standards by Sony in Austria. The quality of these discs is as good or better than a regular CD and should last a minimum of 35 years. They will be replaced free of charge if any become unplayable. If anyone knows how to transfer an e-mail to this site please let me know and I'll do it. I feel very comfortable with his reply and I think we can all rest easier now.
To the above I add the following: if you want a copy of the email contact me at sanfranhansen@aol.com. Mr. Smith also attached copies of documents backing up his statements that there was no intention of deceiving buyers when the process was begun earlier this century.
Tue, Oct 16 2012, 1:04PM
#14
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
The quality of these discs is as good or better than a regular CD and should last a minimum of 35 years.
As I understand it the first part of this statement is true - the bit error rate on the best CD-Rs can be better than on a pressed CD [such errors are completely corrected by the player anyway so they don't affect sound quality].
However the second part of this statement has to be understood as a prediction based on the long-term stability of the dye used in the CD-R. This is usually estimated from simulated ageing tests in the lab. I'm not sure how reliable these are so I always err on the side of caution and back up things on CD-Rs. Sometimes other unexpected things can affect CD-Rs - one of my CD-Rs has some mold-like stuff growing in the label side of the disk (still plays OK), but you never know....
Ted
Thu, Oct 18 2012, 10:38AM
#15
RE: LYRITA & NIMBUS (etc) CD-R's (!!!) - Be warned!
Thanks for heads-up. I never received a reply from Lyrita. Guess I'm only a customer. ;)
Anyway, the discs don't fail across the board, but some of them are no longer readable at the end of the program, a clear sign of rot setting in. And it applies to some other CD-Rs by other companies, too.
The estimate that the CD-R's would last at least 35 years is entirely too optimistic. 5-10 years would be a more accurate number, and that's only if you're lucky. So there's no other way but to back up a Lyrita, Nimbus, BSM etc album immediately after purchase. I'd recommend SSD for this, since another CD-R would be just as prone to failure over time as the original.
I don't buy into the argument that small companies can no longer afford genuine pressed CDs. CD pressings come cheap, and they're much more durable on average. Of the 6,500 CDs I have, when I ripped those, only a handful failed.
Hi,
As most Anglophile classical collectors I was initially overjoyed when the LYRITA recordings re-appeared on the market after a long hiatus. My enthusiasm was a bit muted when I discovred that the new releases, although sold at premium price, were not properly pressed CDs but just CD-R's. Well, they did work - at first.
Now that I've started re-reipping some of those discs, purchased about 3 years ago and stored safely away from dust and light, my trepidation turned to horror as several of these CD-R's are no longer readable or rippable. Sincethe NIMBUS and some other minor label releases) are virtuzally the same product CD-R's, I expect those to malfunction very shortly, too.
This is a disgrace - a rip-off of collectors!
Hello! Not good to hear [Or not as the case may be]! Strangely enough, I just purchased a Lyrita CD a few days ago. It was a used one and I think is the "real deal". I take it that your were referring to older releases that had gone NLA vs. these companies' whole catalogues? Or not?
Also, can you play them on your regular listening equipment and only have problems when you try and listen to them on your computer or car?
I have one CD that I purchased via MDT from Meridian which even though it wasn't listed as such, appears to me to be a CD-R. Note: MDT also initially told me that it was NLA, so I contacted Meridian and they said that it was available; I then ordered it from MDT.
Arkivmusic also does CD-Rs (properly licensed from the appropriate sources). So far, I've only purchased one (a year or so ago I believe?). I'll try and play that and the Meridian one in the near future and report back if I have any problems.
Hopefully these labels have fixed whatever the problem was?
Sound, have you tried contacting any of the companies with whose product you've had problems with? If so, what have been the results?
Good luck!
Petra