Mahler Symphonies
Wed, Oct 17 2012, 4:00PM
#2
RE: Mahler Symphonies
Very good idea. I have or follow almost all the (major) SACD cycles. There are all of great interest soundwise : very clear detailed recordings, sometimes brilliant and quite dynamic and precise.
I have the complete Zinman (on RCA), the Tilson-Thomas (on AVIE), the latter splendidly recorded (and very well performed too). I follow the Fischer's cycle on Channel (quite impressive), the Honec's on Exton (very interesting and exciting as for the recording quality). I have also some individual recordings on Telarc and other labels, like on RCO with Jansons and so on.
For a complex composer with incredibly detailed, difficult and very colourful orchestration works, the best possible (technically) recordings is a must.
Parla
Wed, Oct 17 2012, 9:40PM
#3
RE: Mahler Symphonies
The are some missings. In my opinion some recent issues deserve mention, particularly Rudolf Barshai no.5, Michael Gielen's whole cycle and Ivan Fischer's no.4
Thu, Oct 18 2012, 1:02PM
#4
RE: Mahler Symphonies
The MAJOR record companies would do well to heed your wise words their Parla!
DSM
Fri, Oct 19 2012, 3:57PM
#5
Re: Mahler Symphonies
Let's see...
1. Kondrashin, NDR orchestra, his last recording.
2. I grew up with the LP's by Neumann, still a great performance (they were the cheapest I could find when I was a kid...) Nowadays, Klemperer would be my first choice. Or Chailly, CGO?
3. The Horenstein is the favorite of many others, but I find the performance rather crude in places. Instead I go for the "Christmas" Haitink recording he made in 1983 with the CGO. Marvellous and much more intense than his later Berlin version). But Chailly is almost as good, with the same ensemble.
4. I'm not a fan of Karajan in, well, anything - but in the 4th his approach seems in place. Edith Mathis sings lovely, too.
5. Barbirolli, no other version comes even close.
6. Barbirolli again, I rather like his slow tempo for the first movement. But Tennstedt is marvellous here too, and I love Chailly's analytical, modern approach of the middle symphonies.
7. Chailly, CGO. He clears what could be Mahler's weakest symphony of oldfashioned romanticisms and makes it a 20th century masterpiece. Very impressive.
8. Gielen, live-recording (1980)
9. Walter (1938). People tend to dislike Walter's quick 4th movement, but to me the lighter approach is very refreshing. If I want a modern recording, I go for either Barbirolli or Chailly, who again emphsizes the piece's modernism.
10. Sanderling (1978), a truly staggering performance. Rattle (Bournemouth or Berlin) or Chailly sound too slick in comparison.
Fri, Oct 19 2012, 3:58PM
#6
Re: Mahler Symphonies
As for Das Lied von der Erde, it's my favorite Mahler piece, and I spent quite some time checking out most of the available versions. My favorites, in order of preference:
1. Dickie, Fischer-Dieskau, Philharmonia, Kletzki (1959).
Call me weird, but this is one of my desert island recordings. And not only because of F-D and his incredible rendition of the final movement (listen to his ecstatic "Liebestrunk'ne Welt"!) but also because his collaboration with Kletzki is near perfect, with Kletzki being a much underrated conductor (and not only in Mahler). Dickie is one of the better tenors I've heard in the faster movements, almost on par with Wunderlich. Recording sounds remarkably good for its age.
2. Mitchinson, Hogson, BBC Northern, Horenstein.
Undoubtly the best "regular" version. "Der Abschied" has never been sung and played so beautifully.
The reason why I still prefer Kletzki is, apart from the better orchestra, that Mitchinson is definitely inferior to Dickie and Hogson fares less well in the livelier 5th movement than, F-D or, say Christa Ludwig or Janet Baker (see below)
3. Wunderlich, Ludwig, Philharmonia, Klemperer.
Too much "studio" in this one, and the widely apart recording dates destroy the unity of the composition. And I'm not sure about Klemperer's sometimes stiff direction: I like Horenstein's more naturally flowing approach better. Still, this version boasts the best soloists couple to date. Wunderlich's first movement is unbeatable.
4. Patzak, Ferrier, VPO, Walter.
Still a justly legendary recording, but I like it most because of Walter's impeccable direction. Patzak isn't great, Ferrier neither, objectively speaking, but the emotional power of her performance makes you forget about that. The recording is pretty bad, even for early 50's standards.
5. Kmentt, Baker, BRO, Kubelik.
Baker is the star here, and she challenges Ludwig and Hogson as best "Lied" altos. Kmentt on the other hand I rather dislike, and Kubelik's conducting I find a bit colorless.
Some other recordings I happen to have:
- Kollo, Ludwig, BPO, Karajan: great orchestral playing, but overly slick and sometimes superficial.
- King, Baker, CGO, Haitink: same story.
- King, Fischer-Dieskau, VPO, Bernstein (1966): I don't like Bernstein in Mahler, sorry. To be honest, I don't like him in anything, but let's not go there. King is better in the Haitink recording and F-D is MUCH better in the Kletzki.
- Haeflinger, Merriman, CGO, Jochum (1963): So-so soloists. Orchestral playing is surprisingly idiomatic, given that Jochum isn't known as a Mahler conductor.
- Schreier, Finnilä, Berliner SO, Sanderling (1985): Could have been great, with both Sanderling and Schreier in top form, but Finnilä ruins it.
- Blockwitz, Remmert, Ensemble Musique Oblique, Herreweghe (2006): horrible. The chamber music version makes that the soloists can't properly shine (too bad because they're very good) and Herreweghe's tempi are WAY too slow.
Fri, Oct 19 2012, 6:48PM
#7
RE: Re: Mahler Symphonies
As for Das Lied von der Erde, it's my favorite Mahler piece, and I spent quite some time checking out most of the available versions. My favorites, in order of preference:
Have you heard the Boulez recording on DG?
Fri, Oct 19 2012, 7:12PM
#8
RE: Re: Mahler Symphonies
As for Das Lied von der Erde, it's my favorite Mahler piece, and I spent quite some time checking out most of the available versions. My favorites, in order of preference:
Have you heard the Boulez recording on DG?
Or what about Giulini on both DG and Orfeo? The DG version is for some inexplicable reason out of print but the Orfeo recording (same forces, live) is an excellent version of this score. Fassbaender was one of the greatest mezzos I have had the privilege of hearing and she combines the qualities of a great lieder singer with the dramatic skills needed for the huge breadth of the piece.
Sat, Oct 20 2012, 11:53AM
#9
RE: Re: Mahler Symphonies
Never heard the Boulez or the Guilinis, will put them on my list (thanks for the tip!)
Doesn't have high priority though since I feel my collection of "Lied" recordings is quite saturated already...
Sat, Oct 20 2012, 11:38PM
#10
RE: Mahler Symphonies
Go on, give them a go, you could be dead next week. Das Lied is your bag baby!
Sat, Oct 20 2012, 11:51PM
#11
RE: Mahler Symphonies
Go on, give them a go, you could be dead next week. Das Lied is your bag baby!
Hm... getting both recordings as early as next week (which starts either tomorrow or monday, depending on your definition of the first day of the week) could be near impossible... unless you suggest... [gasp] that I should pirate them? The very idea!
Sun, Oct 21 2012, 12:06AM
#12
RE: Mahler Symphonies
Use whatever means possible. Though personally I find Fassbaender a bit too manly in Das Lied.
Sun, Oct 21 2012, 12:25AM
#13
RE: Mahler Symphonies
50m, your list of your Das Lied von der Erde is saturated indeed. However, as it has been noted by two more members, still there are more to chase. I could add, from my perspective the following:
- Bernstein with IPO and R. Kollo and C. Ludwig. Whether you like it or not, it is another type of "must" in Mahler. (On Sony).
- Reiner with CSO and C. Ludwig and R. Lewis. A Classic, if you can afford the poorer sound. (On Archipel).
- Gielen with Baden-Baden und Freiburg S.O. and C. Kallisch and S. Jerusalem. The very idiomatic Gielen is always a maverick to follow. (On Hanssler).
- Krips with Wiener S.O. and F. Wunderlich snd Fischer-Dieskau. Another surprising "must" from DG.
- Tilson Thomas with the San Francisco SO and T. Hampson and S. Skelton. The only SACD super analytical and extremely detailed recording and an exciting performance too. (On Avie).
- Kempe with BBC SO with J. Baker and L. Spiess. Another "live" jewell from the archives of BBC, on BBC Legends.
Apart from th above "ordinary" performances, one has to have at least one of the following "different" versions of the work, with a view to having a more complete perception of this quite difficult and elusive work:
- Lan Shui with Singapore SO and Ning Liang and Warren Mok. This is the only version in Chinese, replacing the original German texts, inspired by the poetry during the Tang dynasty with Daniel Ng's reconstruction of the original poems. Another world of even the most familiar sounds of "Das Lied von der Erde". Exhilarating, for those who may dare. (On BIS, in SACD format).
- Oxalys group with M. von Reisen and A. Post. The Schoenberg orchestration for Chamber Ensemble, in a very idiomatic performance which shows the inner beauty of the work. (On Fuga Libera).
- Cyprien Katsaris with B. Fassbaender and T. Moser. The reference recording with piano. Superb and sublime singing by particularly the great voice of Fassbaender and a most substantive view of the essence of the work without all the "weight" of the quite colourful orchestration. (On Apex).
Actually, I could have mentioned another dozen or so, but I just wanted to make the point that there is no resolution anywhere in the recording realm. Even if we keep buying, searching, exploring, listening, we' ll never find anything definitive. Perhaps, we should focus on the works rather than on the performances, which, in a way, are destined to be elusive.
Parla
Sun, Oct 21 2012, 12:40AM
#14
RE: Mahler Symphonies
How do people feel about the Schoenberg transcription of Das Lied? Personally I have been lucky enough to hear it a couple of times live (more than the full version) and I find it a fascinating variant. When I hear tis version I cannot help but think Schoenberg was in two mindsets when completing his version; firstly he was just trying to create an accessible version of a score he recognised as something special, but I also suspect he was 'reverse engineering' the music - he got inside the piece by rediscovering it. I assume that for a musician such as Schoenberg this was a provoking exercise, but where are the hints in his own music?
Tue, Oct 23 2012, 3:47PM
#15
RE: Mahler Symphonies
its possible to find great and interesting versions in bargain titles, for example 1st symphony with Zdenek Kosler conducting Slovak Phiklharmonic in NAXOS, who was destinated to record the Mahler s integral but he died and was replaced by Antoni Wit; the 4th with Lubljana Orchestra conducted by Anton nanut with Eric Emannuel Cencic, to day a destacated contratenour, he was 9 years old at that time, the best version recorded with a soprano-boy, for over Bernstein-Concertgebow Orch version. Also the 6th with conductor Harmut Haenchen and Slovenian Philharmonic (or Philharmonia Slavonica), which I commented in amazon and gently the conductor included that commentary in his web site.
"This is a live recording with the Netherlands Phil. Orchestra, now
edited in a Mahler integral in Brilliant, the first movt., a "march", is
something slow, like in Barbirolli's, I prefer the Haenchen's studio
recording of this work in OPUS with the Slovenian Philharmonic Orchestra
(Philarmonia Slavonica), from the 80's, an energetic, dinamic,
colourful interpretation in only one CD, in a bargain collection.
Haenchen is an imense conductor and I think the appropiate conductor for
(for example) Philadelphia or NY orchestras in USA. I recommend you to
visit his web direction in "www.haenchen.net".
oscarolavarria "chileanlawyer" (Santiago, Chile)"
Do you know other titles?? oscar.olavarria
Actually, I am thinking of starting a brand new cycle, on modern recordings (preferably on SACD if possible). Starting with the CSO-Resound/Haitink recording of the 3rd. I am not too happy with some of the AtoD conversions of earlier recordings, so what do others think.
DSM
PS Might also apply to the Bruckner symphonies also