Messiaen
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 9:51AM
Just been listening to a couple of Messiaen recordings. His Taramasalata Symphony and that even wierder thing he wrote in the prison camp, a Frenchman in a prison camp, he can't have been collaborating properly. The theme from Star Trek and a year 3 in rehearsal would have been a more satisfing experience. In his book 20th century composer Morris writes Mahler and Messiaen could well be the important composers of the 20th century, what does Morris drink Carlsberg Special or Tennets Super. So Messiaen listens to the birds does he, I bet they don't listen to him.
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 1:23PM
#2
RE: Messiaen
We all make our own judgements about who and with what to engage with, but really, caballe, are you expecting a rational discussion with someone who make jokes about "Frenchmen" in concentration camps?
Vic.
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 1:46PM
#3
RE: Messiaen
It's not the rational discussion one may expect from a debate with caro "dottore", but maybe the opposite: How irrational and how unexpected any exchange can be, if one has the guts to be faced with such an unbelievable case of human behaviour.
Parla
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 2:04PM
#4
RE: Messiaen
We all make our own judgements about who and with what to engage with, but really, caballe, are you expecting a rational discussion with someone who make jokes about "Frenchmen" in concentration camps?
Vic.
He wasn't in a concentration camp he was in a POW camp, liberals never miss the chance to exagerate for effect, even on a topic as tragic as this, he was released.
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 2:20PM
#5
RE: Messiaen
Is it just me or can anyone else hear the sound of spluttering bile in the background?
Vic.
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 2:32PM
#6
RE: Messiaen
Interesting that you raised this as I just bought a recording of the Turangalila Symphony this week. I've wanted to hear it for several years and it is a rather intriguing work. Is it music? I would say yes but not as we know it. The ondes martinot used in the scoring has associations with film scores depicting outer space, dementia and insanity. What was the work he wrote in a prison camp you refer to?
The work he wrote in a POW camp is usually badly translated from the french, it should be translated as 'Four men sat in a pub drinking until last orders and then time' genlemen please. It depicts a state of utter alcoholism quite realistically.
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 2:36PM
#7
RE: Messiaen
No, I can definitely hear the sound of something in the background. I think I'll turn the radio on to drown it out. BBC Radio 3, I think will do the trick.
Vic.
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 2:55PM
#8
RE: Messiaen
I love Messiaen's music, absolutely love it.
At first hearing it made no sense but after several hearings it all cleverly clicks into place like the birds in the trees.
I'll even forgive his fanatical Roman Catholicism ("What have the Catholics ever done for us?"" They got rid of the witches,").
If the Brodskysaurus hates his music I hope he is subjected to it in hell, played by Alfred Brendel...badly!
If you like Messiaen, by the way, try Koechlin, a leading light of the Barock.
I made that last phrase up.
He wasn't a leading light.
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 4:35PM
#9
RE: Messiaen
We all make our own judgements about who and with what to engage with, but really, caballe, are you expecting a rational discussion with someone who make jokes about "Frenchmen" in concentration camps?
Vic.
You are quite right, Vic. I should have known better. I didn't get a sensible answer. I assume Dr Brodsky means Quartet for the end of time.
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 4:50PM
#10
RE: Messiaen
You are quite right, Vic. I should have known better. I didn't get a sensible answer. I assume Dr Brodsky means Quartet for the end of time.
I made the same assumption (that the phoney "doctor" was referring to the Quartet). I find it an amazing work. I do prefer his chamber music, in the main.
Vic.
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 4:54PM
#11
RE: Messiaen
Ooohh! Cabelle you little tease, you knew all along.
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 6:32PM
#12
RE: Messiaen
I may understand your perplexed stance for a composer who considered himself as much an ornithologist as a composer; who notated bird songs worldwide and incorporated birdsong transcriptions into most of his music. At the same time, most of his compositions depict what he called "the marvelous aspects of the faith" and his desire to express religious ideas (he considered himself deeply rooted in Roman Catholicism). If we add his obsession and, consequently, his innovative use of "colour" along with his conception of the relationship between time and music, you may need some special courage and preparation to get through...
However, for some curious reasons, he is considered (mostly by his peers) as a major composer of the past century. Take him or leave him, but, Dr. Br., please kindly respect him. (He is not the only one who may give you troubles).
Parla
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 8:35PM
#13
RE: Messiaen
Thanks for the warning Parla, I'll be on my guard.
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 9:17PM
#14
RE: Messiaen RE: Messiaen
I love Messiaen's music, absolutely love it.
At first hearing it made no sense but after several hearings it all cleverly clicks into place like the birds in the trees.
I'll even forgive his fanatical Roman Catholicism ("What have the Catholics ever done for us?"" They got rid of the witches..
Now we're attacking Roman Catholics? Who is next? I find this forum becoming rather unappetizing and I've just bit into it. Dr. Brodsky has become contagious
Sat, Nov 12 2011, 10:19PM
#15
RE: Messiaen
Ooohh! Cabelle you little tease, you knew all along.
Perhaps we were listening to the same recording - Myung Wha Chung, a new DG double. If it's a new purchase of yours the difference between you and I is that I am prepared to give it a chance before forming an opinion. I can't hear Star Trek in the Turangalila in either Alexander Courage's theme, much less Goldsmith's stirring score for Star Trek the Motion Picture. Haven't got round to the alcoholics (according to you) on the second disc. A few years ago I heard Messaien's St Francis of Assisi on a radio broadcast and enjoyed it, although it seemed somewhat overlong.
Interesting that you raised this as I just bought a recording of the Turangalila Symphony this week. I've wanted to hear it for several years and it is a rather intriguing work. Is it music? I would say yes but not as we know it. The ondes martinot used in the scoring has associations with film scores depicting outer space, dementia and insanity. What was the work he wrote in a prison camp you refer to?