Overrated Recordings
Thu, Nov 4 2010, 3:41PM
We've had posts on under-rated and "awful recordings" that are actually quite good but I have had some recent experience of acquiring some "classic" recordings that disappoint for various reasons.
First, I added to my 12 strong collection of Marriage of Figaros by buying the classic Solti recording that has always been outside my price bracket. I found it a strangely hollow experience. It's beautifully recorded, beautifully sung and lovingly conducted. Yet for me that's it and the sheer perfect loveliness never gives way to a living underbelly that involves you in the motivations or experiences of the characters. I much prefer Oestmann, Gardiner, Jacobs and Davis. I have been let down by Solti before - his Ballo in Maschera, Carmen, Traviata and second Falstaff were all sold soon after purchase. I do still love his Fidelio, Aida and Zauberflote though.
Second, I got hold of the Von Karajan Madama Butterfly with Pavarotti and Freni for the first time. Wow. How bad is this? Sluggish temi, overbalanced orchestra drowning out any attempts Freni makes at sublety and a rather loud Pavarotti. I love Karajan's Boheme, Tosca and Turandot but was very disappointed in this. I prefer the earlier Karajan with Callas and the Barbirolli or Leinsdorf recordings.
I began to think that perhaps I had collected too much and that it wasn't the recordings but the sheer volume of versions I had that was at fault. So I listened again and came to the same conclusions.
One thing I did wonder was whether DECCA had anything to do with the clean, sheened and ultimately lifeless veneer on these recordings. Have my tastes for "perfect" studio conditions changed as more and more opera is recorded in association with or "as live" performances?
Any other "classic" recordings I should avoid or let downs that you have had would be gratefully received.
Fri, Nov 5 2010, 10:55AM
#2
RE: Overrated Recordings
I may hurt some feeling with this one, but the classic 1958 Brahms violin concerto with Menuhin and Kempe just does not work for me. I feel the need to "crank it up", just like an old gramophone... It's a bit silk like, and for the past 20 years, I just don't "get" this performance. Can anyone tell me how I should listen to this recording, what it merits are? Or do people have the same "feeling" about this recording as I have...
Here is a Spotify link for the complete concerto:
http://open.spotify.com/user/otterhouse/playlist/2XHYI3FE9j3y11oBmWdgvM
Greetings,
Rolf
Sun, Nov 7 2010, 12:51AM
#3
RE: Overrated Recordings
Rolf, your post inspired me to revisit my lp of this performance and do some comparing. One man’s meat I guess. It’s more rhapsodic and introspective than some others, less fiery, but the concentration of both soloist and conductor never falters. I can think of few concerto recordings where all participants seem to be on the same wavelength, as they are here. That may make the whole thing a bit too careful, perhaps too intent on detail for some tastes. There's certainly less tzigany than in many other readings, but it works for me. I grew up with Szeryng and Oistrakh recordings, very different interpretations from this one. The old RCA Monteux/LSO/Szeryng used to be considered a benchmark but appears to have fallen out of favour and has become quite difficult to find.
Incidentally, I also love the Karajan/Freni/Pav Butterfly.
Since we're taking pot shots at eachother's icons, my vote for the most overrated recording of all time goes to the Rattle CBSO Mahler 2. More Rattle than Mahler. I've never been able to get through the whole performance in one go and without my blood pressure red-zoning. To my ears it's a caricature of the work.
Sat, Nov 20 2010, 1:23AM
#4
RE: Overrated Recordings
I know this will infuriate the admirers of the late Sir Reginald Goodall, but I could never understand the acclaim received by his Wagner recordings. I haven't heard the Decca Tristan,but his English National Opera Ring and Parsifal have always struck me as absolutely somnolent,not merely too slow but so sluggish and lacking in momentum and tension as to be travesties of Wagner.
It's known that Wagner could not stand to hear performances of his works with excessively slow tempi,and I doubt he would have approved of Goodall's conducting. Goodall seems not to have a clue as to what Wagner's music is about; he has no idea of how to pace the music makes a complete hash of the tempo relations and almost completely neutralizes any sense of contrast in tempo,taking everything at one flaccid and labored tempo.
Contrast this with the blazing intensity and headlong sweep of Solti's magnificent Wagner recordings on Decca. Now that's the REAL wagner as far as I'm concerned.
Sat, Nov 20 2010, 2:40AM
#5
RE: Overrated Recordings
Would I be going a bit to far to say that the Solti Ring is over-rated? Really, it is a pure studio-engineered product. It has nothing of the excitement of a live recording (and none of the background noise either). Sure the Solti Ring was quite an achievement for its time, but eventually most things become outdated. One example of a live recording which I find exciting is Knappertbusch's Parsifal on Decca from 1957 if I am not mistaken.
Sat, Nov 20 2010, 4:00AM
#6
RE: Overrated Recordings
Don't forget Solti's Rigoletto with Robert Merrill - the best all-round recording out there, I'd say (but then I also love his Carmen). As for disappointments, I'm not a huge fan of the Karajan Ring - the studio version. There is a live cycle floating around that I much prefer.
Sorry James but I find his Rigoletto like his Aida and Falstaff so overblown orchestrally. Where was his consideration to his singers?
Sat, Nov 20 2010, 4:55AM
#7
RE: Overrated Recordings
We've had posts on under-rated and "awful recordings" that are actually quite good but I have had some recent experience of acquiring some "classic" recordings that disappoint for various reasons.
First, I added to my 12 strong collection of Marriage of Figaros by buying the classic Solti recording that has always been outside my price bracket. I found it a strangely hollow experience. It's beautifully recorded, beautifully sung and lovingly conducted. Yet for me that's it and the sheer perfect loveliness never gives way to a living underbelly that involves you in the motivations or experiences of the characters. I much prefer Oestmann, Gardiner, Jacobs and Davis. I have been let down by Solti before - his Ballo in Maschera, Carmen, Traviata and second Falstaff were all sold soon after purchase. I do still love his Fidelio, Aida and Zauberflote though.
Second, I got hold of the Von Karajan Madama Butterfly with Pavarotti and Freni for the first time. Wow. How bad is this? Sluggish temi, overbalanced orchestra drowning out any attempts Freni makes at sublety and a rather loud Pavarotti. I love Karajan's Boheme, Tosca and Turandot but was very disappointed in this. I prefer the earlier Karajan with Callas and the Barbirolli or Leinsdorf recordings.
I began to think that perhaps I had collected too much and that it wasn't the recordings but the sheer volume of versions I had that was at fault. So I listened again and came to the same conclusions.
One thing I did wonder was whether DECCA had anything to do with the clean, sheened and ultimately lifeless veneer on these recordings. Have my tastes for "perfect" studio conditions changed as more and more opera is recorded in association with or "as live" performances?
Any other "classic" recordings I should avoid or let downs that you have had would be gratefully received.
Sorry martin_opera but I have to disagree with you. I find Herbert von Karajan's Butterfly sublime. Freni sounds absolutely right for the part to my ears, sounding youthful and convincing where many sopranos don't. I have much affection for Pav's Pinkerton too where his romanic lightly inflected portrayal makes me understand how Butterfly's love for this cad is complete. Measured HvK's conducting may be but I can't think of another recording which displays the beauty of Puccini's score and orchestration. Vis-a-vis Solti's Le Nozze di Figaro which I consider the most expertly sung version on record. It may lack the warmth and Italianate strengths as other versions. The only thing missing is a lighter touch.
There are relatively few opera recordings if that is what your theme is I regard as poor or poorish. Three which come to mind are Jessye Norman's Carmen, a singer who otherwise I admire, where I wish she would get a move on and provide a traditional interpretation rather than her langourous take on the title role. Oops - I forgot we were talking about classic recordings!
Another is Klempere's highly regarded Die Flegende Hollander where I find Anja Silja's piercing bright tone a trial to listen to as Senta, though many could well disagree. I find Elisabeth Schwarzkopf rather too arch on the George Szell version of Strauss' Four Last Songs. Ditto the soprano part in Guilini's Verdi Requiem where a true Verdian soprano sound is lacking throughout.
Sat, Nov 20 2010, 7:21PM
#8
RE: Overrated Recordings
In the days of the cover CD (oh dear!) I thought the excerpt of the Van Immerseel Symphonie Fantastique absolutely awful and quite unlistenable; lethargic & badly recorded . How on earth could this be an Editor's choice? No wonder a certain other magazine referred to "the trudge to the gallows" and gave it 2 out of 5 stars for performance and 3 out of 5 for recording! Mind you I had just a few days earlier played Beecham's delectable & beautifully recorded stereo version on LP. One of few conductors who seemed to manage a rapport with a French orchestra!
Must now listen again sometime to the Menuhin/Kempe Brahms - haven't played it for years....
Tue, Nov 23 2010, 12:16AM
#9
RE: Overrated Recordings
The Solti Ring "has none of the excitement of a live performance?" I beg to differ.On the contrary,it's much more exciting and alive than many live Rings in my experience. It's if anything,underrated by Solti's detractors.
The Goodall English National Opera Ring,originally on EMI but now on Chandos is ruined for me by this conductor's impossibly slow and labored approach, which robs the music of all its momentum and sponanaiety. It's a live recording of dead performances.
Wed, Nov 24 2010, 6:16PM
#10
RE: Overrated Recordings
I have to admit that I haven't finished listening to the Goodall Ring. I'm stuck in the middle of the Rhinegold so I really can't compare. I was thinking more of comparisons with live German Rings like the Keilberth Ring or the Barenboim Ring. I don't consider myself a detractor of the late Solti by the way.
Thu, Nov 25 2010, 2:47PM
#11
RE: Overrated Recordings
I can not belive my eyes, the Karajan Butterfly (and Boheme) are the best
on record.
Troyanos as Carmen is for me also one of the best (With Price/Karajan)
Overarted : much of the Callas recordings, poor sound on lp as well on cd
Thu, Nov 25 2010, 5:04PM
#12
RE: Overrated Recordings
In defense of the Callas recordings, all her studio recordings were made from 1949 to 1969. Most recordings of that 20-year period likely suffer from poor sound. I believe the Karajan Butterly and Boheme recordings were made in the late 1970s, when recording techniques had vastly improved.
Sat, Nov 27 2010, 10:18PM
#13
RE: Overrated Recordings
Poor sound only does not scare me away. There are some amazing new transfers though. Here is not a Callas one, but Toscanini's 1947 Othello on Pristine. 63 years old recording...
http://www.pristinestorage.com/samples/PACO033.mp3
Rolf
Sun, Nov 28 2010, 5:04AM
#14
RE: Overrated Recordings
I disagree that Maria Callas' recordings were issued in poor sound. EMI have done a wonderful job remastering those ols recordings. It's true to say that some of them ought to have been recorded in stereo but Callas' voice was captured very well for posterity. Of the complete operas she commited to disc there are relatively few interpreters from the stereo age who can match let alone surpass her.
Sun, Nov 28 2010, 8:06AM
#15
RE: Overrated Recordings
I did listin to a few again and I stick with my opion, I tnink I
can safely say that I do like voices but here voice never kept me on
the edge off my cher.So my judgment stays as it is , as for the surpas,
I think Sutherland, Sills, Caballe and most of all Freni did verry
well. Only they din't create a myth.
My humble opion offcaurse.
Don't forget Solti's Rigoletto with Robert Merrill - the best all-round recording out there, I'd say (but then I also love his Carmen). As for disappointments, I'm not a huge fan of the Karajan Ring - the studio version. There is a live cycle floating around that I much prefer.