Overrated Recordings

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otterhouse
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RE: Overrated Recordings

@caballe

If you are satisfied with the 20 year old Callas remasterings re-issued over and over again, (including the infamous semitone difference in Tosca) then don't look further than EMI. It can be improved, but as long as everyone is happy with that practice, nothing will change. A couple of years ago, someone at EMI classical told me that Callas was good for 22% (I repeat 22%) of their revenues. 

The recent "Icon" series are a mixed bag. Some issues are old, other newly transferred. But I can't detect a logic in it.

Rolf

parisboy42
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RE: Overrated Recordings

I am embarassed to admit it, but I'm going to own up to it. I am one of the people who purchased the 70-CD box set of the Callas studio recordings on EMI. I am not unhappy with it because I especially like Callas's voice. However, if the recordings can be improved, why haven't EMI done it? They were supposed to have been newly remastered at the time of issue. I don't know if this is true now that you bring this issue up. As to the semitone difference in Tosca, I have not yet listened to the entire set so I have not noticed it yet. The sound is not pristine. There is some tape hiss remaining in the recordings, but that does not prevent me from enjoying them. I guess caveat emptor remains true of any purchase.

 

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caballe
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RE: Overrated Recordings

Adrian wrote:

I did listin to a few again and I stick with my opion, I tnink  I
can safely say that I do like voices but here voice never kept me on
the edge off my cher.So my judgment stays as it is , as for the surpas,
I think Sutherland, Sills, Caballe and most of all Freni did verry
well. Only they din't create a myth.

My humble opion offcaurse.

The last thing I would want to do is stir up some thorny discussion re Callas v other great sopranos. I came to opera on disc via stereo recordings made mostly during the 70's and 80's and at the time did not want to go as far back as the 1950's or even the 1960's. My admiration and even love of the voices of Sutherland, Caballe, Freni, Sills and many others is very much undiminished. If I was limited to just one version of any opera set it is unlikely that any of Callas' sets would be my first choice.

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martin_opera
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RE: Overrated Recordings

It's interesting how this thread has become dominated by Callas.  I personally think that her recordings are not overrated because in books, radio programmes and articles it is rare to see a Callas recording claimed as the "best one".  BBC Radio 3 Building a Library if memory serves did choose her Ballo in Maschera as the "best" but the best Tosca was Von Karajan with Price, Rigoletto was Giulini with Cotrubas, Aida was Muti (?) with Caballe and so on.  What I was trying to get at was those recordings that are generally held up as great but then for whatever reason dissapoint. 

I am starting to think that time and place count for a lot in ones appreciation of art.  I know that I have started books at the wrong time and seen films that have failed to stir me one day but years later have become firm favourites.  I took the advice of Mr Inverne and listened to the Solti Carmen again (thinking I'd sold it but not!).  And I must say that I was impressed, not so much by Solti but by Te Kanawa and Troyanos. I also aquired the Solti Rigoletto and found it very good.

I have since relistened to the HvK Butterfly and still can't find any merit.  But I'll hang on to it and hope that one day its charms will work their magic on me and move me in the same way that Barbirolli, Leinsdorf and HvK with Callas do.

Happy listening and stop getting so hot under the collar about Callas (although such things could help with all the snow)!  I have never been convinced that she did any harm and certainly didn't stop other sopranos expressing themselves in their own way.  Leave her alone!!  If you want a debate about Callas then maybe start one on another thread!  Have I now asked for it...if so bring it on...

All the best.

parisboy42
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RE: Overrated Recordings

I agree we should start another thread for Callas, but that topic is so wearying after a while. 

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tagalie
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RE: Overrated Recordings

martin_opera wrote:

I am starting to think that time and place count for a lot in ones appreciation of art.  I know that I have started books at the wrong time and seen films that have failed to stir me one day but years later have become firm favourites. 

One of the wisest utterances I've seen on this site. I'm sure we all have examples. Applies to food and wine too.

dubrob
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RE: Overrated Recordings

It´s very true, listening to a piece of music, watching a film, reading a book is never the same experience twice. I suppose it´s because we are never the same. We are never in exactly the same mood, and due to the daily accretion of memories, experiences, emotional baggage good and bad of all sorts, we are never in the same state of innocence, openness, disbelief or initial rapture as the first time you experience something. I think this is why we are able to listen to something for a whole lifetime and not get bored, if it, and our reception of it, was exactly the same, surely we wouldn´t want to repeat it.

Andrew Mellor
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RE: Overrated Recordings

From the last few weeks...there's Inkinen and the NZSO's Sibelius 1 & 3, which in my mind is very poor and a real disappointment. It's been getting widespread plaudits though.

Mercifully the next installment in the cycle has just arrived - 4 & 5 - and the interpretative improvement is massive.

 

matthewpiano
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RE: Overrated Recordings

Adrian wrote:

I can not belive my eyes, the Karajan  Butterfly (and  Boheme) are the best 

on record.

Troyanos as Carmen is for me also one of the best  (With Price/Karajan)

Overarted : much of the Callas recordings, poor sound  on lp as well on cd

 

I beg to differ regarding 'La Boheme'.  The Karajan recording is fine, but I feel the best all-round recording of this is the Beecham one on EMI with de los Angeles, Bjorling, and Merrill.  One of the great gems of recorded music.  My favourite Rodolfo would actually be Carlo Bergonzi in his recording with Tebaldi on Decca.  Such stylish and emotive singing.

I do feel that the de Sabata 'Tosca' with Callas is over-rated, certainly as a purely aural experience.  Gobbi is wonderful, but I find Callas' singing quite ugly in places, although she does act very convincingly through her voice.  I'm not saying it is bad - there are some very fine things about the recording as a whole - but I do feel it is more highly revered than it deserves.

Tsaraslondon1
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RE: Overrated Recordings

Vis-a-vis the Callas question. It is extraordinary that, even 34 years after her death and 56 years after she last performed on the operatic stage, she is still a subject of such controversy. I can't think of another singer for whom the same is true. If I am firmly in the Callas camp (whatever the problems with the voice, I find no other soprano so satisfying musically), I quite understand there are others who will never capitulate.

33lp
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RE: Overrated Recordings

Boheme: I agree with mathewpiano, I thought the Karajan fine until I heard the Beecham: no contest, Beecham livelier and more spontaneous.

dtstrickland
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RE: Overrated Recordings

I have the Chandos excerpts disc of Goodall's Ring and to these ears, its absolutely horrifying.  Does anyone have anything good to say about it?

SpiderJon
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RE: Overrated Recordings

dtstrickland wrote:

I have the Chandos excerpts disc of Goodall's Ring and to these ears, its absolutely horrifying.  Does anyone have anything good to say about it?

Michael Tanner (whose 'Faber Pocket Guide to Wagner' I'd heartily recommend) describes Goodall's Ring Cycle as 'one of the greatest achievements of Wagner interpretation on disc, and is indispensable for probing the depths and details of the inexhaustible work'.

And Richard Lehnert certainly liked it a lot.

What is it that you find so horrifying about it? 

 

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33lp
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RE: Overrated Recordings

Regarding Spider Jon's Strauss footnote, watched the Salzburg Festival programme on TV earlier with brief excerpt of Strauss conducting (one of his own works).   As with previous glimpses of Strauss with the baton he looked bored stiff as if he couldn't wait for it to finish!

dtstrickland
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RE: Overrated Recordings

SpiderJon wrote:

dtstrickland wrote:

I have the Chandos excerpts disc of Goodall's Ring and to these ears, its absolutely horrifying.  Does anyone have anything good to say about it?

Michael Tanner (whose 'Faber Pocket Guide to Wagner' I'd heartily recommend) describes Goodall's Ring Cycle as 'one of the greatest achievements of Wagner interpretation on disc, and is indispensable for probing the depths and details of the inexhaustible work'.

And Richard Lehnert certainly liked it a lot.

What is it that you find so horrifying about it? 

 

Slow and sloppy, the singers forced to drag the orchestra behind it like a Teutonic Bydlo.  Wagner is a long night to begin with; Goodall's sluggish tempi to me is interminable.  And when the big moments come, you gotta deliver.  To these ears, Siegfried's Death and Funeral March is so limp it borders on parody.  The Immolation is one of the most sublime passages in all music, motif after motif crashing upon each other as the world is made anew, and this recording manages to strip it of all drama. I'm aware that Wagner is where Goodall has made his reputation, and that certain respected critics think highly of it.  I'm just simply flummoxed.