Ring des Nibelungen recordings

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c hris johnson
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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

I suppose, besides Solti's there may be other rings she would find attractive?

Chris

PS: The BBC Documentary (The Golden Ring) probably has the right idea.

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naupilus
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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

c hris johnson wrote:

I suppose, besides Solti's there may be other rings she would find attractive?

Chris

PS: The BBC Documentary (The Golden Ring) probably has the right idea.

Chris

If only it was that easy - a woman who grew up on the edge of the Indian reservation is not interested in jewelry.

It's funny, when I first read your reply I started thinking, 'What version of the Ring would she like? Karajan or Knappertsbusch?'

 

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c hris johnson
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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

My goodness, your wife is an unusual lady Naupilus!

Does she not remember Fricka's lines, on hearing of the Rheingold:

Taugte wohl

des goldnen Tandes

gleissend Geschmeid

auch Frauen zu schönen

Schmuck?

[Could one use the golden plaything's glittering gems for women as beautiful ornaments?]

Chris

PS: How wonderfully Flagstad sang those lines!

PPS: In answer to your question: Knappertsbusch!

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parla
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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

And if the more solemn lines of Fricka cannot convince her, you may try the lighter Aria from Gounod's Faust, known as the "Jewel Song" (Oh Dieu! Que de bijoux...). She may be carried away...

Parla

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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

c hris johnson wrote:

My goodness, your wife is an unusual lady Naupilus.

Is there any other reason to spend your life with someone? Anyway, thanks Chris and Parla for the tips but I suspect she would like something far more practical than a ring...

In the meantime (and back on thread), I listened to the Theilemann Rheingold last week, beginning to end. What a great piece of music (and drama)! I wonder who people feel have been the finest Loges, and what characteristics a great Loge must have?

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parla
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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

Difficult to say about the "finest" Loges, Naupilus. Most opt for a good tenor/actor to portray well the difficult and strange character (Kempe with G. Stolze or Haitink with H. Zednik). However, a great voice tenor can give another perspective to the role (Solti with Set Svanholm or Levine with S. Jerusalem).

Theilemann's Rheingold is good enough, maybe among the very competitive ones, at least among the more modern ones.

Parla

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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

parla wrote:

Difficult to say about the "finest" Loges, Naupilus. Most opt for a good tenor/actor to portray well the difficult and strange character (Kempe with G. Stolze or Haitink with H. Zednik). However, a great voice tenor can give another perspective to the role (Solti with Set Svanholm or Levine with S. Jerusalem).

Theilemann's Rheingold is good enough, maybe among the very competitive ones, at least among the more modern ones.

Parla

Parla

Personally I always really enjoyed Zednik as I always found him a fine character singer. I had forgotten Levine's use of Jerusalem! I am not sure I would classify Loge as difficult (unless you mean technically, then I would not know) or strange. He strikes me as containing the contrasting elements that make up some of the finest characters - he certainly is not black and white. He is a trickster and also someone who sees things for what thay are. As you well know he is clever enough to know where everything is heading very early on in the cycle. Possibly this is why I prefer a less 'heroic' voice for Loge - his lacks to arrogance of the rest of the gods.

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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

parla wrote:

Difficult to say about the "finest" Loges, Naupilus. Most opt for a good tenor/actor to portray well the difficult and strange character (Kempe with G. Stolze or Haitink with H. Zednik). However, a great voice tenor can give another perspective to the role (Solti with Set Svanholm or Levine with S. Jerusalem).......

I'm glad Parla's mentioned Zednik. His Loge on the Bayreuth/Boulez DVD Ring (still my favourite on DVD) is both well acted and well sung. The latter requirement is often overlooked in favour of the former. 

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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

naupilus wrote:

Possibly this is why I prefer a less 'heroic' voice for Loge - his lacks to arrogance of the rest of the gods.

Agreed, but I'm not a big fan of the brand of "singer-actors" often employed for this role. Maybe Mime is a better example. Whenever I see a tenor schmiering it up in this part so much that he becomes even more unsympathetic than Siegfried - making you cheer for the stupid bully when he finally disposes of his mentor - I can't help but think about what Wagner would have though of it. The jolly old antisemite would probably approve of it.

Same goes for Beckmesser in Die Meistersinger. Why do singers still think there's still a market for Shylock-clones in opera?

c hris johnson
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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

Loge is a really difficult rôle to sing well. On the one hand he is a trickster, oily, unreliable rogue, but he is also a god. A great singer is needed to do justice to the part. Svanholm was one such (as Parla suggested). Even finer (for me) is Windgassen, in Böhm's Bayreuth performance.  He manages to catch both sides of the character perfectly. A great Loge makes a big difference to a performance of Das Rheingold.

Chris

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naupilus
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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

50milliarden wrote:
naupilus wrote:

Possibly this is why I prefer a less 'heroic' voice for Loge - his lacks to arrogance of the rest of the gods.

Agreed, but I'm not a big fan of the brand of "singer-actors" often employed for this role. Maybe Mime is a better example. Whenever I see a tenor schmiering it up in this part so much that he becomes even more unsympathetic than Siegfried - making you cheer for the stupid bully when he finally disposes of his mentor - I can't help but think about what Wagner would have though of it. The jolly old antisemite would probably approve of it.

Same goes for Beckmesser in Die Meistersinger. Why do singers still think there's still a market for Shylock-clones in opera?

I take your point re. "singer-actors". I was trying to think of a better term - in film you would call them character actors and the best of them bring characters to life with just a few scenes. While this might not be the case with Loge or Mime (certainly the latter is a key part of the Ring) I always feel when portrayed properly (in the pit and on stage) they are interesting. And yes, how many times do we have to have a Mime who squeals? In a great perfromance I think Mime derseves our pity, rather like Gollum.

Beckmesser, for me at least, never works unless he is a man behind the times. He is a man who cannot understand that things move on and each generation reinvents the past to shape a future. Is there more to Wagner's characterisation than that? I am not sure. I see what Barry Millington and others think and also the counterview from Charles Rosen (here) - unfortunately I am not sure either viewpoint is entirely convincing.

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RE: Ring des Nibelungen recordings

    As my first contribution to the forum, may I be allowed to offer a few thoughts apres the Solti ring, considered over the many years since I first walked out of my local record shop (sadly, now long gone) clutching, Alberich-like, the newly-released Solti Rheingold recording. My feeling today is that this recording was the ideal presentation (as opposed to interpretation) for it's era. Let us not forget that when these complete sets appeared, to the average music-lover, the music-dramas of Wagner were still daunting, not least on account of their sheer length. This recording served to open the doors on a sound world previously only familiar to the specialist collector, finally revealing the great work to the many. Few conductors will ever come near to being all things to all people in this giant canvas, but in Solti we have the benefit of a fairly 'straight' traverse of the score. Yes, there are parts (even complete versions) of the work/s that I now, with the benefit of exposure to the avalanche of subsequent versions of this work, prefer by other maestros. However, had I not been introduced to this work by the Solti recording, I have little doubt that I would not have had the interest to explore further.   Undoubtedly a major factor in the success of this first commercial Ring was the technical prowess of the Decca engineers. There were certainly a few misjudged moments of balance, when a singer would be swamped by the sheer weight of sound from the orchestra, or a touch of over-enthusiastic brass (a Solti trademark,) but nevertheless it was a milestone in recorded sound, and a revelation at the time. (I certainly remember one Gramophone reviewer suggesting, not entirely tongue-in-cheek, I suspect, that to identify the quality of new releases, they should be separated by the tag 'before Gotterdammerung/after Gotterdammerung.')  I think that there is a case for condidering the first commercial recording of this (now) much-loved work almost as an analogy of the music itself, which repeatedly draws the listener back, perhaps, occasionally, almost in spite of reservations. For myself, I now look upon this recording with affection, and with gratitude, as one of the great 'firsts' in my musical life.   David Vickers,  Stoke-on-Trent.