Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
Mon, Oct 8 2012, 12:31PM
Interesting article in Gramophone about this which also suggests going to this forum to discuss the matter. So here we are.
I did actually read the article whilst listening to a recording of William Sterndale Bennett's 2nd concerto which was not mentioned in the list. Interesting point made though, concert promoters trying to get some obscure contemporary piece in performance (which is good), will dovetail it with say a Rach2 or Brahms1.
Also, I did hear Scharwenka's 4th Piano Concerto on CFM last week, it does sound pretty good and I intend to purchase the CD. How about having it at The Proms ?
DSM
Thu, Oct 11 2012, 12:44PM
#2
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
Parla
I think very highly of Hyperion, particularly their Robert Simpson series. The recording standards are very good, and have an understated quality about them.
DSM
Wed, Oct 17 2012, 5:53AM
#3
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
Hello!
I would like to make a plea for the most beautiful of all late-Romantic piano concertos, that of Ernst Von Dohnanyi. His Piano Concerto in E minor is quite possibly the most unashamedly rich-sounding, sonorous, and rollicking of the forgotten concertos by "lesser" Romantic era composers. There are also as yet unrecorded concertante works by Gounod for piano and orchestra. Could we, additionally, make a plea to record the first known American piano concerto by Otis B. Boise, who had an audience with the elderly Franz Liszt?
Lloyd Arriola
New York City
Wed, Oct 17 2012, 4:20PM
#4
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
Excellent idea, Lloyd ! The Dohnanyi concerto is really one of the forgotten gems of the piano and orchestra repertoire. A good modern recording of it is long overdue.
Wed, Oct 17 2012, 7:53PM
#5
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
I don't think either of the Piano Concertos by Dohnanyi are so significant. They leave me rather cold and indifferent as much of his output.
In any case, there are two fairly recent (at least not too old) and good recordings, on Hyperion with Martin Roscoe (in the Romantic Piano Concerto series, no. 6) and on Chandos with Howard Shelley. I don't think we really need definitely a new recording.
Parla
Thu, Oct 18 2012, 6:33PM
#6
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
I am not so familiar with the Dohnanyi as to feel I can pass a critical opinion but I do agree with Parla that we probably are fortunate to recordings from Shelley and Roscoe so I think we should wish for other fare. (I will listen to them over the next few days, just to refresh my memory.) Roscoe is also busy recording the complete solo piano works, so feel free to check those out.
I must admit to liking the concertos of Brull, which have some nice touches and very strong echoes of Schumann that almost border on plagarism (to my ears at least). Possibly this affection for Brull is because currently I am in the middle of a Schumann-a-thon and have reachd an obsessive stage regarding the Fantasie, which is for me one of his masterpieces. Schumann's biography is also on the desk and is making good reading. I have to admit that his hatred of Hetz has led me to buying the piano concertos, if only to see what all the fuss was about.
Another disc I don't have but have the greatest immediate desire to get is the Hummel A minor concerto, which seems to have been a favourite of Chopin, Liszt and Schumann. I wonder so few recordings are done?
Ah, and the Thalberg is out this month from Shelley... ready to be pitted against Liszt's second (a personal favourite, never better than when Zimerman and Richter slice through it). I have read that Hyperion have a problem with the Raff concerto and won't record it. Shame, I like off the beaten path.
Thu, Oct 18 2012, 12:12AM
#7
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
Dohnanyi's Concertos have had recent recordings, but the question is what one would individually like to see recorded, not what shouldn't be recorded. It's funny how that got misread by someone who thinks that there are other concertos that are "more worthy". Well, sure! But I don't suggest that others should not be recorded, I just love this E minor Dohnanyi Concerto. Others like Brüll, Sgambati, and Raff, et al. I love those too.
Now--maybe two recordings of the same concerto are enough. Perhaps. But do we need a 130th recording of even the greatest concerti? That might be the true overkill.
Shall we look forward to Hyperion doing more Romantic era Concerti by Britons like William Shakespeare (a forgotten British composer) or the short-lived English virtuosa Kathleen Bruckshaw, who played the Busoni Piano Concerto? And there are other Concerti, from the 20th century, like Furtwängler's, or Sergiu Celibidache's, or Dimitri Mitropoulos's, or Hans Richter-Haaser (performer-composers) that might be of interest to people who like arcana as I do!
Happy listening! I am interested in more ideas here by fellow music-lovers.
Best,
Lloyd
Thu, Oct 18 2012, 8:05PM
#8
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
Lloyd,
I knew nothing of Bruckshaw until you mentioned her. I did a little digging at the Unsung Composers forum (great place, just wish they still talked about 20th century composers too) and she seems an interesting figure from the shadows. Maybe one day Danny Driver or Mark Bebbington will place the concerto (and the piano quintet would make a nice coupling!).
Now the Busoni concerto - there is a work I love, for all its apparent faults! Busoni also did a transcription of the Goldberg Variations (which is recorded twice already?). I just wish some of Busoni's writings were available in English - from the little I know he was supposed to be a great interpretor of the Beethoven sonatas. His and Liszt's Beethoven are the two I wish we had recordings of today.
Going back to the thread and the desire for piano concerto recordings there is seemingly more chance of piano concertos being recorded, as opposed to violin concertos. While CPO always seem to have somebody ready to record a piano concerto I have read that at Hyperion it is more of a struggle to find musicians willing to learn violin and cello concertos. I would very much like to hear the Gernsheim piano concerto and the Klughardt cello concerto...
Fri, Oct 19 2012, 4:50AM
#9
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
Naupilus--
I do not know the Gernsheim Piano Concerto--I will look him up!
If Hyperion is looking for a pianist to record an obscure work, they can call me. I will happily record a piano concerto, particularly if it is something gorgeous. Why not the Anton Rubinstein Piano Concertos, or Rheinberger's superb Concerto. Mrs. H H A Amy Cheney Beach wrote a fine, tuneful Piano Concerto in C sharp minor that can be coupled with the Marie Jaell Piano Concerto. And Theo Ysaye (brother of Eugene) wrote an extended piano concerto in E flat major, one that can be coupled with the Concerto by Henryk Wienniawski's pianist brother. Call it an album of "Adventures in the piano concerti by lesser-known sibling piano virtuosos"...
More ideas? Concertos from the Romantic era written by Swiss, Luxembourgisch, Croatian, lesser Hungarian, Scandinavian composers? For me--this is fun!
Lloyd
Fri, Oct 19 2012, 11:10AM
#10
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
For the labels might be, most probably, waste of precious funds. As for audiences...waste of time.
I can assure you, that, after building a huge collection of a number of CDs I don't dare to mention and listening to any rarity in every genre, I always go back to the few (actually very few) great -truly great- Piano Concertos, as well as Symphonies, etc. That's why we have 130 recordings of Rachmaninov's Second or Chopin's First and so on...
Parla
Fri, Oct 19 2012, 2:12PM
#11
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
Maybe. No one hates a masterpiece. But then again, the rarity recorded is still a fine diversion. Waste of money is all in the eye of the beholder, I guess. Even I would prefer a recording of a rarity than hear yet another competition winner (blind from birth or otherwise) play Rachmaninoff Third Concerto. If it is not Evgeny Kissin or Argerich or Lupu or Joyce Wang (rather than Yundi Li or Lang Lang) playing a warhorse, them I am far less interested in hearing the warhorse. Let the aficionado hear the obscure--perhaps there is some gem there. Exploration is always good. The son of the conductor Artur Nikisch wrote a piano concerto--seriously--that is very moving and beautiful and highly unusual, even quite personal. Howard Shelley recorded it. It is worth hearing. The underground trading of such arcana is not interesting to me. I say let them be recorded, complete with liner notes, and let us be amused! Don't rain on the parade!
Fri, Oct 19 2012, 3:28PM
#12
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
I can understand your points. However, I still doubt both the labels and audiences may give the chance you are looking for. The efforts have been given; the endeavour has been tried; the result was not convincing enough...So, what should we expect next?
Parla
Sat, Oct 20 2012, 2:07AM
#13
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
Who knows what to expect from the recording industry? We should be grateful for the abundance. I do not understand what I see as a mildly curmudgeonly desire for the rarities to remain unrecorded. Anyone has the funds to fund the discs being made--let them be made. This should also go for new music. This needs to be recorded as well.
Sat, Oct 20 2012, 10:49PM
#14
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
By all means, new music has to be recorded and it is actually. The problem is that it cannot justify the raison d'etre of this endeavour. Of course, there are few exceptions, which, however, justify the rule.
Opera Rara is struggling with funding to promote, in the best possible way, rare Operas (as the label suggests), but the impact to potential buyers is almost minimal, at least to help the company to pursue its noble goal.
The same happens with other projects from other labels, since the listener has to search well to find "the jewel among the dross".
(I speak from experience as an avid and seasoned collector.)
Parla
Sat, Oct 20 2012, 11:34PM
#15
RE: Romantic Piano Concertos of the 19th Century
Parla
My (layman and thus very personal) issue with Opera Rara is that they do make it difficult to support their very noble aims with the current system of sponsorship they have. If they were to offer something like the charities I support - a monthly donation scheme, I suspect they might have a better chance at the funding. The caveat is that this may not be possible, for some legal reaosn I do not know - otherwise I cannot see why it would not make sense. As for the recordings they give us, while there may be faults in some of them (for those who are more knowledgeable than me!) I for one am extremely grateful for the care and attention they give to their booklets. These are a model for other labels - if only CPO had better writers!
The good news is that Opera Rara are at this moment recording another rarity from Donizetti. As I have decided (in line with the anniversaries) so spend extra time listening to Verdi that also means listening to more Donizetti, Bellini and Rossini. I may even try to put together something along the lines of Liszt's program in Weimar - he conducted Ernani I think (or at least tried hard to get the opera onto the stage).
Ah well, back to my Moscheles which just arrived in the post. Might make a fun evening listening to a concerto, following up with some Mendelssohn and Schumann.
If you are actually interested in 19th century Romantic Piano Concerti, Hyperion has launched, years ago, an excellent series titled "The Romantic Piano Concerto". It has already reached almost 60 volumes! There you may find anything you could expect and much beyond your imagination. The series might not be characterised by stunning performances, but most of the recordings are adequately served, while quite a few even brilliantly presented.
I trust this is the most comprehensive recording project on this subject.
Parla