Sibelius
Wed, Jul 21 2010, 9:11AM
#2
RE: Sibelius
Granted, I haven't even listened to all the recordings mentioned here, but I would like to mention Segerstam's Ondine recording of the 4th symphony (with the Helsinki Philharmonic). I liked it so much I haven't listened to other recordings of it since. I got that feeling - "this is the one".
Also, is the general consensus that the 3rd symphony is a lesser work? Why is that?
Wed, Jul 21 2010, 11:38AM
#3
RE: Sibelius
Has anyone heard Sanderling's Sibelius with the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra? It's gritty and well recorded.
Wed, Jul 21 2010, 7:55PM
#4
RE: Sibelius
Also, is the general consensus that the 3rd symphony is a lesser work? Why is that?
Not for me, it isn't. It's surely overshadowed by 4-7, but probably the strongest of the first 3. 1is impressive and stirring but a bit embryonic with all kinds of Tchai influences, 2 is very fine up to the last movement, the weakest in the whole canon for my money.
Wed, Jul 21 2010, 9:45PM
#5
RE: Sibelius
Yes, the Barbirolli 5th is my favorite of all the 5ths I have. It was performed on August 9,1968 with the Halle. I have it on a BBC Radio Classics CD which also includes the Nielsen 4th from a 1965 Prom. Has it ever been issued elsewhere?
Also, don't forget Boult's 7th on a BBC Legends CD. Highly satisfying and well recorded at a Royal Festival Hall 1963 concert with the Royal Philharmonic.
Sun, Aug 1 2010, 3:12PM
#6
RE: Sibelius
Rozhdestvensky's thrilling versions with the Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra on Melodiya have just come out and everyone should hear these bracing and uncompromising versions, which really show up the superficial Karajan performances for the bland travesties they are.
Sun, Sep 19 2010, 9:42PM
#7
RE: Sibelius
Great to hear another fan of Rozhdestvensky - I've had them on LP since buying them in Moscow quite a while ago. I absolutely HATE Karajan in Sibelius - I used to live in Norway and these performances are so unidiomatic it sounds like he's racing through the tundra in a Porsche 911 with the heating on. Sibelius is the music of the forest and its murmurs, the wind, the depths of the fjords, the bleak white skies of winter, the flowers that brighten up Spring in the mountains. If you don't feel all that in your bones it may be food for the concert hall but it ain't Sibelius.
Mon, Sep 20 2010, 8:08PM
#8
RE: Sibelius RE: Sibelius
I absolutely HATE Karajan in Sibelius ... these performances are so unidiomatic it sounds like he's racing through the tundra in a Porsche 911 with the heating on.
A wonderful metaphor - made all the more so by the fact I initially misread woodenhead's comment as
"... which really show up the superficial Karajan performances for the bland transvestites they are"
Mon, Sep 20 2010, 8:25PM
#9
RE: Sibelius RE: Sibelius
"... which really show up the superficial Karajan performances for the bland transvestites they are">>
All the more interesting since one of Herbie's nicknames was "Fluffy", given to him by an old girlfriend......
"Ach, Fluffy, mein Liebchen, you look so CUTE in zat suspender belt ven you are visselling Finlandia".....
Fri, Oct 1 2010, 7:44PM
#10
RE: Sibelius RE: Sibelius
Many a true word ......................
Let me quote from the liner notes to the original lp of Karajan's Sibelius 5:
He (Karajan) is evidently fascinated by the music of the Nordic master, just as in his private life he loves to skim over snow-clad slopes as an expert skier, to sail across the Mediterranean in his yacht, or to enjoy the glory of flight at the controls of an aeroplane
Ah, that Herbie von K., just a regular Tom Sawyer kind of guy.
Despite all, I do like his Sibelius.
Fri, Oct 1 2010, 10:08PM
#11
RE: Sibelius RE: Sibelius
As one who came to appreciate Sibelius through HvK's recordings I find it hard to understand how anyone could fail to enjoy his performances of works by this composer. The first recording I bought was a stunning digital disc from DG of Finlandia, Swan of Tuonela, Valse Triste and Tapiola. I have yet to hear these performances matched. Since then I have added much of Sibelius' works to my collection conducted and performed by a myriad of musicians including Neeme Jarvi, Sir Colin davis, Sir Simon Rattle, HvK, Ashkenavy and many others. Herbert von Karajan's recordings stand out to my ears as among the finest performances of his symphonies and tone poems. I have yet to hear a more stirring account of Tapiola than on the first disc I mentioned and his account of symphonies 4-7 on DG are very fine indeed. I am less enamoured with his BPO recordings of syymphonies 1,2,4 & 5 on EMI but I think this is more to do with the digital glare of early CD recording technology than the performances themselves. I haven't heard the Philharmonia recordings of 2 & 5 but I have read these performances are very good. In this forum's previous life and elsewhere HvK's recorded output has been given a substantial drubbing, somewhat unfairly to my mind, for things like homogenous sound, relaxed tempos, shortening singers careers etc but it has never put me off purchasing his recordings. How could it when he was at the helm of some of the finest orchestras in the world and provided opportunities to so many fine musicians?
Tue, Oct 5 2010, 10:41AM
#12
RE: Sibelius
A couple of leftfield proposals newly released in the last 24 months:
Thomas Zehetmair's recording of the Sixth with the glistening chamber-size Northern Sinfonia is pretty extraordinary - you might not like it but it certainly exposes the structure of the symphony like I've never heard before. Personally I like it very much.
Then there's Ashkenazy's recent cycle on Exton with the Royal Stockholm PO. On point of interest here is that it's the ONLY recording of the First symphony I've heard in which the rapid 'unfurling' motif in the violins is clearly articulated. For all his clarity, not even Vanska's recording does that.
Tue, Oct 5 2010, 11:35AM
#13
RE: Sibelius
I should say - the rapidly unfurling motif early on in the first movement of the First symphony. If any other recordings clearly annunciate those quick passages, I'd love to hear of them...
Tue, Oct 5 2010, 9:08PM
#14
RE: Sibelius
Re. Karajan’s Sibelius, the DGG recordings were received with reservations first time round – still are for that matter. People complain that edges had been too rounded-off. Trevor Harvey’s initial review of the 4th in the Gramophone was typically quixotic and unenlightening but one of the great Sibelius specialists of the time, Robert Layton, initially had misgivings too. He overcame them completely and in later reviews noted the Karajan 4th and 5th as perhaps the best ever recordings of these works.
It’s easy to see why people don’t care for them, Compared to most other interpretations Karajan’s strike you as rather triple-glazed at first hearing. Only when you become accustomed to the plushness of the sound does the power of his readings take hold of you. I’ve yet to hear a performance of either 4 or 5 that I prefer, and his last cycle, for EMI, certainly doesn’t equal them to my ears.
As for the “rapidly unfurling 1st violin theme in the 1st symphony, I’m wondering if you’re referring to the opening of the allegro energico after the clarinet intro, the kind of arabesque figure over tremolando strings (not unlike an upside-down variation of the first subject of Walton’s 1st symphony). Actually I believe the first statement is given to violas before we move to the second half of the theme in G major, taken by violins and cellos leading to the first big crescendo statement of the arabesque-y bit. The only recordings I know intimately are the Maazel and the Kamu and neither articulate it particularly clearly. Good readings of #1 aren’t thick on the ground and I’d be interested to hear the performance you recommend.
Thu, Oct 7 2010, 2:36PM
#15
RE: Sibelius
Sorry...don't have a score but basically yes I mean the outward folding motifs that immediately precede that first climax - first there's a measured, staggered outward 'unfolding' of high vs. low strings in contrary motion which precedes four rapid contrary motion outward scales of a beat each in value - again high strings soaring upwards and low strings plunging downwards.
It seems perverse to cite this few bars' worth of material but I just can't fathom why it's only Ashkenazy who deems it necessary to articulate those passages.
I'm not so pernickerty as to preclude favouring a recording if it DOESN'T do so, but by the same token Tigali is absolutely right to say that the First suffers from a lack of quality recordings.
Perhaps it's something to do with the fact that many still insist the First is 'Tchaikovskian' - that's always seemed nonsense to me and Vanska said the same in a recent interview. All the distinctive Sibelian hallmarks are already emerging - hell, they've already emerged!
Symphony No. 5 with Barbirolli. Don't forget his live recording from the Proms - even better (I was there!)