Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
Fri, Jan 14 2011, 5:26PM
As a relatively new convert to CM (some of it that is) I'm still trying to find my way around and so far have pretty much relied on the Gramaphone Guide to build up my collection. Viz LvB's symphonies I've gone with Kleiber 5 & 7, Klemperer 3, Norrington 2 & 8, Bohm 6 plus Classic FM's Davis/Staatskapelle Dresden 5 & 7 and 6. What I do know now is that I generally prefer big, muscular and in-yer-face orchestration, modern rather than period instruments and for tempi to be on the faster side. Now I've got a bit of dosh I'm looking at getting some cycles and so would appreciate suggestions as to what fits the bill. With at least 50 cycles out there I dont know where to start.
Fri, Jan 14 2011, 9:48PM
#2
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
For the preferences you have stated, I would say that Karajan´s first DG cycle recorded in the early 60´s fits the bill perfectly, you would probably also like Furtwangler and Toscanini.
Fri, Jan 14 2011, 9:59PM
#3
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
I'm not sold on period instruments for their own sake BUT try and listen to Eliot Gardiner. There's nothing timid or small about this cycle. I think it's big and very powerful. In good sound too. I also like Harnoncourt - and it's ridiculously cheap.
Fri, Jan 14 2011, 10:26PM
#4
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
I also like the Gardiner LvB cycle.
Sun, Jan 16 2011, 11:51PM
#5
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
I'd strongly recommend Furtwangler for Beethoven. Not always the fastest but full of depth and tension. The superb recent Audite box set of his RIAS recordings with the Berlin Phil includes recordings of the 5th, 6th, and 3rd symphonies. The 1954 Beethoven 5th is a revelation of dramatic tension. The new EMI box set of Furtwangler's recordings includes a complete Beethoven cycle which is wonderful.
I'm also a lover of Klemperer and wouldn't be without his EMI recordings of the cycle.
Mon, Jan 17 2011, 1:14AM
#6
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
Although he has his detractors and is sometimes a bit too suave and smooth, either Karajan's 1960s or mid 1970s DG cycle fit your requirement for muscular in-yer-face. (TedR)
For the preferences you have stated, I would say that Karajan´s first DG cycle recorded in the early 60´s fits the bill perfectly, you would probably also like Furtwangler and Toscanini.
Thirded.
Mon, Jan 17 2011, 10:44AM
#7
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
Thanks for the advice. I'll probably start off with the Karajan 62 recordings as I like the stuff he's done with Sibelius tone poems and Brahms and Tchaik's symphonies. Having a gander at the reviews on Amazon (US and UK sites) the ratings for Haitink/LSO, Barenboim/Staatskapelle Dresden, Abbado/Berlin PO and Harnoncourt/COE, Mackerras/Royal Liverpool, Gardiner are all well rated exept for the odd maverick with completely opposite views to the general consensus. The Zinman/Tonhalle and Cluytens/Berlin sets are only around the £10 mark. So I think I may go for a couple of these two. Thing is which of these are big orchestras and I assume these are all in stereo. Viz sets recorded before the 60s how do CDs in mono sound on a modest system. I have a Sony micro. The bottom line is to CM novices are the differences between sets that noticeable or it this is something die hard Beethovenites can only tell apart?
Mon, Jan 17 2011, 10:57AM
#8
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
Oh and are there any sets generally to be avoided. I read that Karajan's 4th cycle (1970 ish) is his least good.
Mon, Jan 17 2011, 2:53PM
#9
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
Sets from the 1950-70s generally follow the model of either Toscanini (objective, powerful, fast, incisive and relentlessly driving forward) or Furtwangler (extremely subjective, very spiritual-seeking with big contrasts in Tempo, weighty tone, lots of romantic rubato etc) or somewhere in between. Karajan 62 is somewhere in between but closer to Toscanini.
The sets from the last 10 years you mention like Abbado/BPO, Zinman, Rattle, Vanska, Mackerras are with modern orchestras but with lessons learned from authentic instrument recordings with generally fast speeds and leaner textures. My guess is to start with you might just choose one of these.
Ted
Mon, Jan 17 2011, 8:34PM
#10
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
In general, old recordings sound just as good on modest systems as on state-of-the-art stuff. Perhaps better. High-end hi-fi will tend to pick out the flaws. For me, mono only becomes a serious issue if you're listening on headphones. It sounds boxy.
I have the Zinmann and quite enjoy it as a change of pace though it wouldn't be my first choice. As TedR says, it's a modern version benefitting from period lessons. Between lps and cds I've got enough Beethoven 1-9 to last me a lifetime but if I was starting again I'd be interested in the Mackerras. With just about any composer he had interesting things to say. Our library just got the Klemperer cycle in so I'll be exploring that though I have to say Klemperer is an acquired taste I never acquired.
Mon, Jan 17 2011, 9:04PM
#11
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
I know I am in the minority on this but Solti and the CSO's cycle originally released on London vinyl has always been my favorite. It has been heavily criticized as being to bold and overbearing. Well, Beethoven was bold and overbearing was he not??? Anyway, it has just been rereleased on CD. If you like your Beethoven unprettified and not overanalyzed, this one's for you.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=175842
Mon, Jan 17 2011, 11:47PM
#12
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
Cluytens is good mainstream late '50s stereo. many bargain hunters of the '70s will have them as they were part of the Classics for pleasure catalogue. They're slightly less in your face than HvK, slightly more generous with first movement repeats. Berlin Phil so big orchestra - probably many personnel the same as in the later HvK performances.
Lots of good Beethoven cycles out there. Enjoy.
P
Tue, Feb 1 2011, 5:08PM
#13
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
I'll second that view.
Feeling the need to re-acquaint myself with my first ever Beethoven symphony on LP I bought the Cluytens cycle from HMV, Japan, very cheaply.
I see it is due for reissue with a packaging makeover here.
What struck me was how slow the performances were after years of listening to the likes of Norrington, Gardiner et al and those modern performances that are influenced by period performance Boyd's 7th, by the way, if you haven't heard it, is a knockout: clarity with weight).
Tue, Feb 1 2011, 5:08PM
#14
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
I'll second that view.
Feeling the need to re-acquaint myself with my first ever Beethoven symphony on LP I bought the Cluytens cycle from HMV, Japan, very cheaply.
I see it is due for reissue with a packaging makeover here.
What struck me was how slow the performances were after years of listening to the likes of Norrington, Gardiner et al and those modern performances that are influenced by period performance Boyd's 7th, by the way, if you haven't heard it, is a knockout: clarity with weight).
Sun, Apr 24 2011, 7:00PM
#15
RE: Suggestions for LvB cycles for a CM neophyte
I have recommended Blomstedt's cycle in Dresden, on Brilliant Classics, on a number of occasions. It's a great starting set, in my opinion, not costing an arm and a leg, but providing solid performances from a superb orchestra and a fine conductor.
Although he has his detractors and is sometimes a bit too suave and smooth, either Karajan's 1960s or mid 1970s DG cycle fit your requirement for muscular in-yer-face. In fact I prefer Karajan in 5 and 7 to Kleiber. If you're not allergic to older recordings then I would suggest the 1950s Toscanini/NBC (perhaps sample this before buying). Although some people find this cycle a bit rigid compared to earlier Toscanini, I've always quite enjoyed it.