The collectors' dilemma
Fri, Mar 2 2012, 11:40AM
#2
RE: The collectors' dilemma
Fair enough, eyeresist. You are perfectly clear. The problem starts, whether you become an archivist or not, when your collection gets larger and larger, even by purchasing what you think you need to have. The more you have the more an "investment" you create. So, to send it to a "charity shop" might be an option, but to end it up in a landfill...It's, somehow, pity. The CDs are not necessarily expendable.
As for the "best reason" to collect, the "Holy Grail" might be a thrilling motivation but, in the best possible case, it might end up in reaching your Holy Grail. If you may mention only a "definitive" recording of a Symphony of a very marginal composer, you may figure out how elusive might be to reach a perfect performance of let's say the Symphonies of Weber or the Piano Quintet of Brahms or the String Quartet of Faure or the Violin Sonata of Franck, etc.
Troyen, it's not that I don't know what Glyndenbourne is (actually, I have quite a few recordings from there). I don't live in UK and I'm not supposed to know what's going on there, as you're not supposed to be aware of what's happening in the "Egg" theatre of Beijing or the Opera-Comique in Berlin or in the Opera-Bastille of Paris or the Opera-Theatre de Saint-Etienne and so on.
Parla
Fri, Mar 2 2012, 11:56AM
#3
RE: The collectors' dilemma
Oh this wretched handwringing, the guilt, the absolute guilt, woe, woe I say.
Look if you are so concerned about your pathetic collection, some of you, then achieve redemption by sending it to me (think of the postage cost as an element of your redemption) and I will pack off the rubbish and stuff I've already got to musicmagpie and give the rest a home and promise, tongue in cheek, to play them more than you ever could in what remains of your tragic existence.
Parla, I don't believe you unless you have suddenly popped out over the top to grab as many Glydebourne recordings as you can find (is The Rakes Progress among them?).
Do those that have problems with opera like the Barockery? I bet they do, sad sods.
Fri, Mar 2 2012, 4:47PM
#4
RE: The collectors' dilemma
Well, I didn't mean to ruin anyone's day, but the issue of 'what happens after ...' is a moot point when you don't have anyone on whom to bestow your collection. I am in this position. No one I know shares my tastes. No one would want my collection. How utterly tragic that my discs of Aho, Pettersson, Bentzon, Schnittke, etc will be ... no, it's too sad for words.
Buy, hey, let's brighten up here. I am a happy collector, and have many happy times ahead, even if it is in solitude.
Now, actually getting that solitude is another kettle of fish. And the issue of what do you do if you want to play Schnittke 5 knowing you are going to antagonise could be the subject of another thread.
Fri, Mar 2 2012, 4:49PM
#5
RE: The collectors' dilemma
Maybe my "investment" is pathetic but not my collection. Not at all, Mr. Troyen. It's an archive of almost anything (available or not) a musician, collector, scholar etc. might wish to have access to.
The rest of your post doesn't deserve any response. Keep it for yourself.
If you "don't believe me", it's your business. I cannot and you cannot prove anything in this forum. However, if I claim I collect for some decades all the possible CDs and, more recently SACDs, I'm supposed to have several recordings from Glydebourne (including The Rake's Progress) as well.
Let's stop here. Enough is enough, Troyen.
Parla
Fri, Mar 2 2012, 4:54PM
#6
RE: The collectors' dilemma
Maybe my "investment" is pathetic but not my collection. Not at all, Mr. Troyen. It's an archive of almost anything (available or not) a musician, collector, scholar etc. might wish to have access to.
The rest of your post doesn't deserve any response. Keep it for yourself.
If you "don't believe me", it's your business. I cannot and you cannot prove anything in this forum. However, if I claim I collect for some decades all the possible CDs and, more recently SACDs, I'm supposed to have several recordings from Glydebourne (including The Rake's Progress) as well.
Let's stop here. Enough is enough, Troyen.
Parla
Rhetorical question: Then why didn't you say so earlier?
Strange, I thought that enough is enough is something I would never read from you.
This should be encouraged!
Fri, Mar 2 2012, 9:02PM
#7
RE: The collectors' dilemma
The way you present my statement looks like a clear contradiction, but if you read it carefully, I said the key phrase "what I know". Besides, the context was on the importance of the voices in Opera, so I tried to underscore what I was taught to that effect. While I don't contest the multi-faceted nature of Opera, I believe that there are certain aspects of it that count more than others (voices, orchestra, conductor, venue). Practice has indicated that great voices could save a performance more than any other aspect.
As for the first paragraph, those who don't agree will call my statement an "opinion", while those who agree they might easily claim that's the truth. However, for your info, I haven't heard any musician of any kind (soloist, conductor), producer or scholar to state that there is a "perfect" performance. Even the reviewers in the magazines we know, they refer to "benchmark" or definitive (so far) recordings, but not for the perfect ones. If we consider that the magazines claim their own "benchmark" recordings, which, normally, does not coincide with the others, we realise the relativity of the perfect performance. Besides, how can you prove a performance is perfect, particularly in musical terms?
When, once, I asked an unsung hero Asian pianist, who practised for about half an hour a passage of one bar of Mozart's Piano Sonata in a minor, whether she was looking for perfection, she answered: If there was a perfection in performing a classical music work, that would mean the end of music. I'm just trying to justify my performance!..
Parla
Wow! Two distinct stages of the Parla Song and Dance routine in one post! The 'you misunderstood me' stage AND the 'wise old professor told me' routine. You're moving faster these days, which is welcome because we've heard it all before umpteen times and anyway, what you said is all there in black and white. You can dance til you drop, most of us have already formed our opinions on you and your posts.
Could I now ask you to move on or limit yourself to the topic at hand? You've got a knack of turning good threads into circular discussions of your much-ridden hobby horses. This has been a good discussion. We don't want it to go the way of the Days of Future Past thread.
Sat, Mar 3 2012, 12:42AM
#8
RE: The collectors' dilemma
"Song and Dance routine", "knack", "much-ridden hobby horses"...
I'm not so sure who has which knack about which much-ridden hobby horses, following or inventing a specific routine (Days of Past Future).
In my first posts, I "limit myself" to the topic at hand. I guess it was not only because of me, if the thread has been...expanded.
Anyway, collecting CDs is quite a subject. Let's stick to that (if we can).
Parla
Sat, Mar 3 2012, 1:24AM
#9
RE: The collectors' dilemma
"Song and Dance routine", "knack", "much-ridden hobby horses"...
I'm not so sure who has which knack about which much-ridden hobby horses, following or inventing a specific routine (Days of Past Future).
In my first posts, I "limit myself" to the topic at hand. I guess it was not only because of me, if the thread has been...expanded.
Anyway, collecting CDs is quite a subject. Let's stick to that (if we can).
Parla
And I thought for one brief moment that you had learned when to give up.
How wrong I was but one can only hope that one day when your are not whizzing around the planet discussing music and organising discussions and concerts with eminent people(yawn) you will review your posts, the responses they provoke and understand why.
Go on, you know you can.
Sat, Mar 3 2012, 2:51AM
#10
RE: The collectors' dilemma
No one I know shares my tastes. No one would want my collection. How utterly tragic that my discs of Aho, Pettersson, Bentzon, Schnittke, etc will be ... no, it's too sad for words.
I got a smile out of that. In the days when I used to buy cds from shops (as opposed to online) it used to amaze me to note a new recording of some obscure composer on the shelves, come back a week later to buy it, only to find it had gone. Eerie to think that out there, not too far distant, somebody else wanted to listen to the same stuff as me. Over a 30-odd year working career I could count on one hand the number of people I met with any kind of real interest in classical music.
Sat, Mar 3 2012, 2:57AM
#11
RE: The collectors' dilemma
"Song and Dance routine", "knack", "much-ridden hobby horses"...
I'm not so sure who has which knack about which much-ridden hobby horses, following or inventing a specific routine (Days of Past Future).
In my first posts, I "limit myself" to the topic at hand. I guess it was not only because of me, if the thread has been...expanded.
Anyway, collecting CDs is quite a subject. Let's stick to that (if we can).
Parla
Sat, Mar 3 2012, 5:05PM
#12
RE: The collectors' dilemma
Well, I didn't mean to ruin anyone's day, but the issue of 'what happens after ...' is a moot point when you don't have anyone on whom to bestow your collection. I am in this position. No one I know shares my tastes. No one would want my collection. How utterly tragic that my discs of Aho, Pettersson, Bentzon, Schnittke, etc will be ... no, it's too sad for words.
Buy, hey, let's brighten up here. I am a happy collector, and have many happy times ahead, even if it is in solitude.
Now, actually getting that solitude is another kettle of fish. And the issue of what do you do if you want to play Schnittke 5 knowing you are going to antagonise could be the subject of another thread.
To paraphrase Brian's mother in 'Life ofBrian'; "Schnittke, whats that? Next time you come you can keep your Schnittke."
It's a long time since I heard any Aho but it matters not as you can post them all, except Schnittke, to me where, if I haven't got them already they will be greeted like long lost relatives.
Mon, Mar 5 2012, 3:11AM
#13
RE: The collectors' dilemma
And now for something completely different ...
Does anyone know a woman who collects classical cds as avidly as we do? (I'm assuming you're all men, of course - correct me if I'm wrong)
Mon, Mar 5 2012, 11:29AM
#14
RE: The collectors' dilemma
Not in my lifetime. Unfortunately, women are wiser than we are and they channel their passion in more substantive matters like family, children, sometimes making good money and some more productive activities.
Some of the men, like us in this forum, prefer to resort to some more intellectual, cultural and other "holy grail" activities, like avidly collecting CDs, paintings, stamps, etc. I'm extremely happy my wife doesn't follow my passion and I wouldn't mind if my new son decides to follow his mother's path instead of mine.
However, there are plenty of wonderful female musicians, even composers, artists, directors and producers, something which is more positive and productive.
Parla
Mon, Mar 5 2012, 12:16PM
#15
RE: The collectors' dilemma
Not in my lifetime. Unfortunately, women are wiser than we are and they channel their passion in more substantive matters like family, children, sometimes making good money and some more productive activities.
Some of the men, like us in this forum, prefer to resort to some more intellectual, cultural and other "holy grail" activities, like avidly collecting CDs, paintings, stamps, etc. I'm extremely happy my wife doesn't follow my passion and I wouldn't mind if my new son decides to follow his mother's path instead of mine.
However, there are plenty of wonderful female musicians, even composers, artists, directors and producers, something which is more positive and productive.
Parla
Yes, are they not wonderful the little dears?
Now you add sexism to your cv.
A patronising one, at that.
Your wife must put up with a lot.
Shall we get into an argument about opera? The only thing worse than an opera fan is a ballet fan 8)
Re Collecting, I occasionally have to remind myself, "I am not an archivist." My collection is a resource only for myself, and to be brutal, no-one will look at it after I die and say "What a genius this man was! We must preserve this work forever!" No, face it, after I'm gone, it'll all go down the charity shop (if it doesn't end up as landfill). The important thing is to enjoy the music NOW.
The search for the Holy Grail is the best reason to collect. Sadly, I don't think I'll ever hear the Prokofiev symphonies done the way I can imagine them in my head, but on the other hand I was lucky enough to find Friedmann's recording of Kalinnikov's 1st, not perfect but probably as close to the ideal as I'll find in my lifetime.
'Art doesn't need philosophers. It just needs to communicate from soul to soul.' Alejandro Jodorowsky