What are you listening to right now?
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 12:17AM
#2
RE: What are you listening to right now?
...and what's wrong with being reminded of G&S? They created some excellent confectionary of pupular light opera, a good deal funnier - with more political bite - than their contemporary Viennese, German or French tonesetters in this genre.
I'll have you know I find Wagner as funny.
One example: the knight who goes on a pilgrimage to Rome to receive absolution from the Pope for sleeping with Venus and the Pope, he say, NO!
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 12:45AM
#3
RE: What are you listening to right now?
The Myth might sound (or look to you, if you take it at face value) "funny". Not Wagner!
Do you find all these folly of the Mad scenes in Italian Opera making any sense, except for addressing the vocal exhibition of the astonishing abilities of the singer in question?
And on which grounds "Emilia" and (its reworked revision) are works of a "towering genius"?
Parla
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 1:46AM
#4
RE: What are you listening to right now?
Correct, Tagalie, as for "melomaniac", since there is the word "melos" in ancient Greek, meaning -grosso modo- what we perceive as song in the western tradition. "Mania" is a word used more in the more modern Greek, meaning more the obsession or the passionate love rather than the uncontrollable and with negative connotation notion of "madness".
"Me'lomane" has been used widely in France, Italy and Spain, at least the last few centuries, so it is considered more French raher than the original Greek word (melomanes). The meaning in this word is much softer than "melomaniac", since it implies simply the person who loves (passionately) the (singing) music, the lyrical one.
Just for the record.
Parla
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...................oops, sorry, dozed off for a minute there.
Does all this mean I get a star? And can I get to sit with my friends troyen and jkh again? We promise not to giggle while you're writing on the blackboard.
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 8:24AM
#5
RE: What are you listening to right now?
Well, Troyen, I'm not quite sure now what you mean by "drag a bit". Out of curiosity I looked at the discography of the 8th symphony on www.abruckner.com - they list (with timings) hundreds of recordings of the work and Schuricht's is the fastest of them all, rivalled only by Karl Böhm and, wait for it....... Klemperer (in his 1957 Cologne recording)! Anyway I got the Schuricht 8th out again myself last night, as promised. I thought it was one of thge most exciting performances around. But misses much of the 'spiritual' side of the music. Wonderful playing from the Vienna Philharmonic though. They were surely made for this music. An almost incredible contrast with Celibidache (Total time 71'16" compared with 104'10').
I'm still interested to know whether you can hear any difference between the CD layer and the SACD?
I'm also curious about the BBC 1957 Donizetti Emilia. I wonder whether the BBC still have the master tapes. That would surely be worth issuing.
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 9:02AM
#6
RE: What are you listening to right now?
Do you find all these folly of the Mad scenes in Italian Opera making any sense, except for addressing the vocal exhibition of the astonishing abilities of the singer in question?
Parla
Well admittedly mad scenes in 19thC opera were an opportunity for vocal pyrotechnics, but since they are intended to portray madness, 'sense' would seem to be the precise thing they aren't attempting to convey.
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 11:59AM
#7
RE: What are you listening to right now?
Well, Troyen, I'm not quite sure now what you mean by "drag a bit". Out of curiosity I looked at the discography of the 8th symphony on www.abruckner.com - they list (with timings) hundreds of recordings of the work and Schuricht's is the fastest of them all, rivalled only by Karl Böhm and, wait for it....... Klemperer (in his 1957 Cologne recording)! Anyway I got the Schuricht 8th out again myself last night, as promised. I thought it was one of thge most exciting performances around. But misses much of the 'spiritual' side of the music. Wonderful playing from the Vienna Philharmonic though. They were surely made for this music. An almost incredible contrast with Celibidache (Total time 71'16" compared with 104'10').
I'm still interested to know whether you can hear any difference between the CD layer and the SACD?
I'm also curious about the BBC 1957 Donizetti Emilia. I wonder whether the BBC still have the master tapes. That would surely be worth issuing.
I looked at this site and it, interestingly, lists the Schuricht 8th as Haas (mixed), whatever "mixed" means, where the EMISACD clearly states that the edition used is the Nowak. Also, it lists Simone Young's Oehms recording under Haas where it is the 1878 original, as is Welser-Most's, I believe.
The beauty of Schuricht's Bruckner is the speed, of course, but he was not immune, rightly so, to tempo fluctuations like all of the Austro/German conductors.
I found the loss of tension greatest in the first movement of the 9th, made up for by some truly beautiful phrasing and great playing from the orchestra but it is not my favourite Bruckner and, perhaps, I need a lot of convincing.
These went straight to my iPod and, so, in fairness I cannot tell, although the recordings sound "of there time" the later recorded 9th sounding marginally better.
As for poor old Emilia, the '57 is out there on a private tape according to OR.
Perhaps you should enquire of the Beeb.
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 12:02PM
#8
RE: What are you listening to right now?
Do you find all these folly of the Mad scenes in Italian Opera making any sense, except for addressing the vocal exhibition of the astonishing abilities of the singer in question?
Parla
Well admittedly mad scenes in 19thC opera were an opportunity for vocal pyrotechnics, but since they are intended to portray madness, 'sense' would seem to be the precise thing they aren't attempting to convey.
Mostly in Bellini and Donizetti, of course, but there is Verdi's famous mad scene in Macbeth.
Sometimes, they regain their sanity when the hero is found alive( I Puritani).
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 12:58PM
#9
RE: What are you listening to right now?
Yes, certainly Schuricht uses Novak. There are two Novak editions, based on the 1887 score and the 1890 one respectively. Haas's edition makes use of both scores (hence 'mixed') as well as some music that Bruckner crossed out. Some people don't like this but I think overall I prefer Haas.
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 3:01PM
#10
RE: What are you listening to right now?
JKH, are the "mad scenes" really "intended to portray madness" (did they need at that time in Italy so much portrayal of madness?) or were they the musical vehicle for the vocal pyrotechnics and the exhibition (to madness) of how far the singer has to go to show her vocal prowess and stamina for the sake of the popularity of the work?
A flutist in US told me once (in the early 90s), after a performance of Lucia at the Met: Fortunately, Donizetti wrote this "madness nonsense" to give to flutists some interesting work to go for. I'm not sure the sopranos feel the same way.
Parla
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 3:53PM
#11
RE: What are you listening to right now?
Am listening to the SACD release by DG of Gabrieli, 'Music for San Rocco'. Really nice performance as ever by the Gabrieli Consort and Players. The SACD surround sound is used to full effect and really brings the music to life.
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 5:28PM
#12
What are you listening to right now?
JKH, are the "mad scenes" really "intended to portray madness" (did they need at that time in Italy so much portrayal of madness?) or were they the musical vehicle for the vocal pyrotechnics and the exhibition (to madness) of how far the singer has to go to show her vocal prowess and stamina for the sake of the popularity of the work?
I shouldn't think it would need a cryptographer or textual analyst to see that my original post suggested they were both. I've no idea what you allude to when you mention Italy's 'needs' at the time.
A flutist in US told me once (in the early 90s), after a performance of Lucia at the Met: Fortunately, Donizetti wrote this "madness nonsense" to give to flutists some interesting work to go for. I'm not sure the sopranos feel the same way.
And a soprano once told me otherwise - a view with which I'd suggest that most Lucias would concur.
Tue, Apr 17 2012, 10:18PM
#13
RE: What are you listening to right now?
Well a few minutes ago, I was listening to Jascha Heifetz play the Chaconne and the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto Op.35 in D-maj. Those are my favorite pieces recorded by Heifetz. Every time I think about the Chaconne, Heifetz will always come to my mind. He was the first violinist I listened to for that piece.
Wed, Apr 18 2012, 12:15AM
#14
RE: What are you listening to right now?
Yes, certainly Schuricht uses Novak. There are two Novak editions, based on the 1887 score and the 1890 one respectively. Haas's edition makes use of both scores (hence 'mixed') as well as some music that Bruckner crossed out. Some people don't like this but I think overall I prefer Haas.
Yes, I do too but it is interesting to hear the original sometimes.
Not for those that put structure above everything.
Wed, Apr 18 2012, 12:19AM
#15
RE: What are you listening to right now?
JKH, are the "mad scenes" really "intended to portray madness" (did they need at that time in Italy so much portrayal of madness?) or were they the musical vehicle for the vocal pyrotechnics and the exhibition (to madness) of how far the singer has to go to show her vocal prowess and stamina for the sake of the popularity of the work?
A flutist in US told me once (in the early 90s), after a performance of Lucia at the Met: Fortunately, Donizetti wrote this "madness nonsense" to give to flutists some interesting work to go for. I'm not sure the sopranos feel the same way.
Parla
Who told the flautist that, Donizetti?
It wasn't intended for a wind instrument at all as can be heard on the Gergiev recording but, apparently, Donizetti changed his mind , as we know now, after a petition from leading flautists.
He thought about it and thought that he would be mad not too!
Correct, Tagalie, as for "melomaniac", since there is the word "melos" in ancient Greek, meaning -grosso modo- what we perceive as song in the western tradition. "Mania" is a word used more in the more modern Greek, meaning more the obsession or the passionate love rather than the uncontrollable and with negative connotation notion of "madness".
"Me'lomane" has been used widely in France, Italy and Spain, at least the last few centuries, so it is considered more French raher than the original Greek word (melomanes). The meaning in this word is much softer than "melomaniac", since it implies simply the person who loves (passionately) the (singing) music, the lyrical one.
Just for the record.
Parla