Death of a Forum.

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Death By a Single Cut?

Oh dear. The link from the Gramophone home page to the Forums seems to have been removed. Do these Forums now no longer officially exist? Have we been sacrificed on the altar of cost reduction?

Roderick

Roderick2 wrote:

Roderick2 wrote:

Oh dear. The link from the Gramophone home page to the Forums seems to have been removed. Do these Forums now no longer officially exist? Have we been sacrificed on the altar of cost reduction?

Well, you can hardly kill something that is already dead. A pity, though. With sensible management, it could have been a really wonderful forum..........

I'm not sure how "better

I'm not sure how "better management" works Jane.  You and I have both had experience of over-intrusive management elsewhere.  A public forum is, or should be, in the hands of its posters (with the exception of flagrant breaches of its rules).  What has happened here is persistent and intrusive intervention in each and every topic by pedantic and domineering, self-defined "expertise".  It has changed the nature of the forum from a platform for sharing the love of music to a lecture hall.  

 

The arrogance I am writing of wouldn't listen to advice from "management" - after all, it knows better - and heaven knows, enough of us have pleaded for a change of tone and attitude to no effect.  And low and behold, a wasteland has resulted.

 

 

 

VicJayL wrote:

VicJayL wrote:

I'm not sure how "better management" works Jane.  You and I have both had experience of over-intrusive management elsewhere.......

Better management doesn't have to mean brutish heavy-handedness. It can be done with tact and good sense, to make sure the forum doesn't ever get to the point where it withers away altogether. I have seen this done, to excellent effect at other sites - such as the Friends of Radio 3 Forum. (Well worth checking out, if you like sensible, informed discussion on a range of topics. Usually a nice, friendly atmosphere. It is not officially part of Radio 3, by the way, but managed entirely by volunteers who take the content of Radio 3 as a good starting point for discussion.) You don't ever feel hemmed in or restricted by this, but you do occasionally witness a tactful intervention which helps limit damaging confrontations etc 

By "management", I also meant something a little broader than "moderation" or "supervision". I meant an act of nurturing, to help ensure the forum thrives and develops along fruitful lines. There are many ways this can be done, too, without turning into the kind of small-town tyranny we both experienced at that other site. The fact is that Gramophone have clearly taken no interest in this forum. That is the real reason it has collapsed - from a "managerial" point of view. Obviously, one can also point the finger at certain individuals......... 

It's academic now in any case

It's academic now in any case, with the taking down of the link on the homepage.  And it's unlikely to be done on economic grounds Roderick. More like embarrassment I suspect.

The Friends of Radio 3 site looks interesting Jane - but I prefer the way things were here before the decline set in.

It crossed my mind earlier to post on the new amazing Rattle Beethoven Symphony cycle, and the new mind-blowing St John Passion from Jacobs - and even my newfound love of Solti's Wagner - but, hey ho - too late. At least I've spared myself a lecture on my awful taste and reading about twenty-five better versions.

Hmmm......Interested to hear

Hmmm......Interested to hear about the Rattle set. I have read nothing but bad reviews of this. Also costs a small fortune - unless you want to spend the day stroking the deluxe faux-velvet covers while watching the complementary blueray disc..........

Unwanted advice

Fully agree about the irritating tendency of some self-appointed experts to launch into bouts of defamatory logorrhoea, thereby spoiling the discussion for everyone. Alert moderation could have nipped it in the bud, but alas...

Roderick

No review from Gramophone yet

No review from Gramophone yet, but the BBC Music mag. positively raved.  Poor review from the Guardian.  I've listened twice to the whole cycle on Qobuz and love it. I get the energy and excitement of a fresh approach, making listening to the cycle drawing attention to the development from first to ninth, the Berlin Phil's forces progressively and appropriately enhanced from piece to piece.  I've always enjoyed the Berlin Phil's sound and the DG engineers' production skills, and this set fully delivers - to my ears anyway.  I will always go back to Karajan's sixties' versions as a kind of home base - but hearing this set feels like a first hearing - twice now.  

Have you heard the Jacobs St John Passion yet?  It came as a revelation to me.  I had always considered it a poor relation to the Matthew.  How wrong I was.  I read the Gardiner biography and was reminded of Chris' excellent Cantatas thread here.  How lucky and priveleged we are to have access to such great music.  

I will have to look out for

I will have to look out for the Rattle set, then. I generally do enjoy his recordings, though my sense is that he does tend to get overpraised somewhat in the British press. (He seems to have a lot of militant supporters dotted around the music establishment..........Some of the people writing reviews etc are clearly devoted personal friends.) But anyway, I will take your recommendation and see if I can get my hands on it. A pity it is only being released as an absurd vanity set from the BPO. I have to admit, however, that I am a little ambivalent about Beethoven these days. There is something about the personality of the music that makes me wince a bit. I am not talking about all the pieces, but only a lot of them. There are whole symphonies, for instance, that I just can't listen to anymore.........

I haven't heard the Jacobs St John Passion. I am ashamed to admit that I hardly know this piece, though, like many, I know the Matthew passion inside out........Again, I really like Jacobs, so will look out for this, too.

Rattling Beethoven a Jacobs Bach.

The new cycle of Beethoven's Symphonies with Rattle is better (at least) recorded and, in some ways (a more mature reading), performed than his first cycle on EMI. Except for BBC mag., I have not encountered any quite positive review. In France it was rather negatively received and in Germany somehow positively but in a lukewarm way. By the way, what about his new BPO Sibelius cycle?  (At least, the Second by Jansons, on BR Klassik, is of the highest order both as a performance and recording).

Of course, it is not "an absurd vanity set from the BPO (label)". That's simply the way it is nowadays with BPO and it's worthwhile, if you wish to go for it (these productions are first-rate in almost every aspect of the final product).

Jacobs account of Bach's St. John Passion is excellent, if you wish your Bach in this sort of "groundbreaking" performances. However, the work is quite subtle, almost intimate and with refined profundity. Harnoncourt, for example, was more to the point, although his recording(s) cannot compare with the full of superlatives production of HM for Jacobs (in an impressively detailed SACD recording).

Parla

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