Which Mahler 10th

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Which Mahler 10th

Hello to Everybody.  I wil be going tomorrow to hear Mahler's Tenth Symphony (12/2/2011) performed by the New York Philharmonic at Avery Fisher Hall here in Manhattan.  The conductor is Daniel Harding.  The Cooke version will be used.  I know that Mahler left behind 172 pages of a rough draft of the score.  He only completed the first movement.  Bernstein and many others refused to conduct anything beyond the first movement.  I am fasinated by the many five movement versions.  There are Cooke, Mazzetti, Carpenter.  Cooke seems to dominate the recordings but I also own versions by the other two finishers. I have not compared these versions but plan to do so after I attend the concert. Any more information any of you can give would be appreciated.  Thank you.

RE: Which Mahler 10th

Rudolph Barshai also made a credible arrangement of the 10th which is worth experiencing.

RE: Which Mahler 10th

I just discovered I have the Barshai also.  So far, nobody seems to be interested in te 10th so maybe Bernstein was correct.  However, I still find it very interesting and will write about the performance by Harding and the NYP.

RE: Which Mahler 10th

I have, in order of preference, Rattle Berlin (Cooke), Robert Olson (Wheeler), Sanderling (Cooke), and the Barshai version.

The Rattle recording is possibly the best thing he has done, totally confident and very intense, and I think the close Philharmonie sound only helps.  I think the Wheeler version may be better than the Cooke, and the Naxos recording under Olson enjoys better sound than Rattle, but Rattle's is the ultimately more convincing performance.  Sanderling is competent, but the Berlin Classics sound is mediocre and the musicians sound unfamiliar with the work. Barshai is as usual very dry-sounding, both emotionally and sonically, and the percussion he adds to the score doesn't sound at all Mahlerian to me.

As for the Cooke completion's musical virtues, I'd say it works. Only a snob or a fanatic would resist the 10th on principle, when there is so much terrific music in the score which would otherwise go unheard.

'Art doesn't need philosophers. It just needs to communicate from soul to soul.' Alejandro Jodorowsky

RE: Which Mahler 10th

Daniel Harding made an outstanding recording of the 10th with the VPO, using the Cooke III version. If he repeats his performance now with the NYP, you're in for a treat, jesserj !

RE: Which Mahler 10th

I just listened to Rattle Berlin. It still impresses me as very fine, but as usual with Mahler I lose concentration during the "heavenly" finale (same thing happens to me in 3 and 9). Apparently Mahler specified a flute for that famous rising line at the beginning of the finale, but I would like to hear it done on violin one day.

'Art doesn't need philosophers. It just needs to communicate from soul to soul.' Alejandro Jodorowsky

RE: Which Mahler 10th

Carlos and everybody else, yesterday's performance of the Mahler Tenth was absolutely wonderful.  The program guide said it would last 67 minutes.  I told my wife that this is a mistake.  I timed it at 79 minutes which is a few minutes over most Cooke performances.  At times it was so sad it was difficult to stand but Mahler felt that way.  Mahler actually told a friend to destroy the score and thank God he did not listen.  There are major tympany thwacks (if that is the word for very loud bang) in the last movement.  One more and I would have had a headache.  Daniel Harding even at age 36 really understands Mahler and I would look for future Mahler recordings.  I really believe that the Tenth is one of the great symphonies even though there are a few problems.  It had not been performed since 1984 by the NYP.  I hope you get to hear it soon in the UK by a great conductor and orchestra.  I know I am rambling here but I am not a muscian but love much of serious music and feel lonely since I have very few people to talk to about music.

RE: Which Mahler 10th

Mahler's 10th was going to be a masterful symphony. Alas, he didn't finish it. I have only heard the Cooke and Wheeler completions, neither of those recently. Cooke is overwhelmiing - and has realised a great and moving symphony that I guess must bear some relationship to what GM might have finished.

glad it was a good experience.

 

P

RE: Which Mahler 10th

Despite all the apparent good things the laborious endeavours of Cooke, Barshai and the other guys on recreating the 10th, I believe Mahler (and Bernstein) were right to stick to this one movement survived and retained. The rest looks as a quasi-Malher overstuff. Of course, for Mahler fans (I am a great admirer, but not that crazy for his exaggerating creativity, inventiveness and musicianship) it's a must to know and experience everything, even the speculative works he might have composed, as he should have composed, even if, in the end, he didn't.

For me, the 4th remains his greatest musical masterpiece, despite is the more "modest" in orchestration (for some peculiar reason, he omitted the trombones and he had a limited use of the percussions and brass). The slow movement, in musical terms, is his utmost masterpiece, a truly divine, full of magnificent musical ideas and glorious development piece.

Parla

RE: Which Mahler 10th

jesserj wrote:

  Bernstein and many others refused to conduct anything beyond the first movement. .

 

Yes you have to admire Bernsteins stand on this sort of thing. He of course never conducted Mozart's Requiem for the same reason....

 

 

       ......NOT

RE: Which Mahler 10th

parla wrote:

it's a must to know and experience everything, even the speculative works he might have composed, as he should have composed, even if, in the end, he didn't.

Of course Mahler "composed" the 10th. He worked out the whole thing from end to end. This is quite a different case from Elgar 3 or the Scriabin Preface to the Mysterium.

'Art doesn't need philosophers. It just needs to communicate from soul to soul.' Alejandro Jodorowsky

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