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"Who cares", Richypike? There are people who truly care, particularly those who love, study and indulge in music more than apparently you do. According to your initial phrase, you label "classical music" as more or less useless in our modern life. At least, you granted me a valid reply to this topic.
No wonder, you called this thread "ridiculous", "crap" and so on. Under these circumstances, you don't need Music, I'm afraid. Anything can go or not. No wonder, also, that, after 64 replies in your thread within more than a year, you still "don't get" Opera!
As for the substance, I have not found a "music that resonates with me". There is a lot of kinds of what still may be called music that "resonate" with me, but I cannot call them "great". They may be nice, pleasant, interesting music, but Classical (Bernstein called it wisely "precise") is The Music I love, appreciate and respect for more than 30 years (before travelling and living abroad). I can recognise it as one of the very few ultimate forms of Art that has greatly contributed to the occidental civilisation and to humanity. From that perspective, yes, I'm afraid I belong to a "discriminating" minority (which, of course can be easily discriminated by any other minority or majority).
It;s totally up to you to like or dislike whatever you choose to listen, but it's foolish of you to streamline (in a Procrustean bed way) everything as one "kind" of the same value, which you simply embrace or discard it. The convenient theories do not usually represent the truth (which always is one).
As everything in this Life, Music has values, rules, laws, canons that define when and how a form of it is great. As you may recognise a mansion from a hut, a gourmet from a junk food, a good from a villain, a smart from a fool, you have to come to a position to distinguish which is Music and what simply has left to be called as such.
Since you like Tagalie, I remind you that you can find in this thread that he claimed, very wisely, that "rewards (in music) can come from effort", which means "the more you know, the better you comprehend and the wiser you choose". That may be my reply to your topic on how you can "get" Opera (which is the most popular form of Classical Music).
Good luck and so long, Richypike,
Well Parla thanks for your considered reply to my petulant rant - one should not post on the forum when at the wrong end of a bottle of red. Apologies if I caused offence in any way.
Anyway, yes your are right, 'classical music' is the the most rewarding artform we know and although I do listen to other musical forms I do wonder why sometimes when I return to a Sibelius or VW symphony or Bach Cantata for instance.
Having said that, I do have considerable knowledge of each genre that I listen to and do not think I arbtrarily streamline my musical likes (if this is what you mean by Procrustean) but am willing to reapraise my listening habits. Food for thought.
Regarding opera, and after such a splendid response to my original cry for help, I am gonna start afresh with early opera (as early baroque is my favourite period) and see if by improving my core knowledge this will instill an understanding of this elusive noise.
Thanks for your very kind response, Richypike. I'm extremely glad, since, eventually, I can be even slightly understood and of any sort of help (for food for thought).
As for the Opera, yes start from the very start: Monteverdi is a good "education" of how this "think" was created. However, you have to study the context, the environment, the compositional features (the role of all those recitativos), the orchestration of these works, with a view to truly indulging in this very old form of composition.
I too now recognize that I am a Philistine although we listen to all kinds of music.
Could Parla, or anyone else please help us?
What is the definition of "classical music"?
When did it start? When did it end? Who were the key composers 'then' and 'now', if there are any now?
This is actually a serious question as far as I am concerned.
What a "revival" of a "dead white man music"!
Do you really need a definition, Socrates, of Classical Music" (along with the other "pertinent" questions)? Some tips: precision, notation, 11th century, Classical period, form, structure, orchestration, score.
Think it over: when you really love something, you'll learn, gradually, more about it and, in the end, you'll appreciate it...accordingly.
I feel very dissappointed with Parla's response to my question about a definition of 'classical music'. He includes everything from 1100 onwards.
I prefer to use the standard distinction between the early, common practice, and contemporary periods.
Early: Medieval 500-1400; Renaissance 1400-1600
Common Practice: Baroque 1600-1760; Classical 1730-1820; Romantic 1815-1910
Contemporary: 1910 onwards
This to me is vitally important when I read so people referring to "classical" in a broader sense to cover both the classical and romantic periods 1730-1910. Hence the very broad definition by Parla was a real surprise to me having read his usually so well informed contributions.
I can then relate that we listen mainly to early music, baroque and the early classical period, i.e. Bach, but I should add definitely not Mozart. No romantic for us, but some contemporary does get a listen occasionally.
Before I get crucified by Parla I need to modify my previous post.
We listen to Bach who is definitely Baroque not Classical. If Classical starts with Mozart then it is not for us.
My wife tells me that we listen to Schubert and Chopin paino music, and thus do listen to some Romantic music.
I have just this afternoon ordered the Britten cello sonatas, so I guess we listent to contemporary music as well.
It is what you like to listen to after all that is important at the end of the evening.
Socrates, I did not give any definition. I gave you some tips, as I wrote in my previous post. Based on these tips (which are not exhaustive but indicative and inclusive), you may build the definition of Classical Music. That is to say:
The key feature of Classical Music is the Precision in composing and performing a Classical work. This precision is dictated and safeguarded by its notation, which started taking some sort of shape around the 11th century. However, it was the Classical period (not to be confused with Classical Music) that lead this kind of Music to its peak and great formation, even perfection. In that period the form and structure of the composition becomes the key feature that combines and, eventually,justifies the complexity of distinctive melodic lines with imaginative counterpoint and creative Harmony. Later on, in the 19th and the first quarter of the 20th century, orchestration culminates the whole picture of the Classical Music works and the glorification of the score becomes the "bible" of approaching, studying, performing and examining thoroughly any composition.
Periods play an artificial role to identify or classify works and composers, but there is no particular significance in them beyond that use. Besides, the "time borderline" is quite blurry. The "Medieval" period has practically no notation or a very loose one. Composers like Monteverdi can easily move between Renaissance and Baroque, while Bach (or even Haendel) can belong to almost all periods of Music, particularly by virtue of their influence. C.P.E. Bach, to a great extent, likewise. In Mozart, one can trace the first roots of Romanticism, while, in Beethoven, Romantic features become more evident. On the other hand, Brahms can easily go back to Classic counterpoint and harmony, quite often, in his compositions or transcriptions. On the other hand, what kind of contemporary music we can talk about, for works written one century ago? And so on.
So, I guess Socrates you might get the point, somehow. We are talking about Precise Music, predominantly. "Classic" is, more or less, a...name to identify this "Precise" Music.
Finally, while, at the "end of the evening", what we like counts, till we reach this point, there is a whole long journey of the day into the night, where one can and, perhaps, has to experience, learn, indulge in as much music as possible. That counts more, maybe much more, than what might happen at the end of this journey.
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