Brahms 1st symphony - is there a really outstanding version that can match Furtwängler?

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Emotional connection.

If it is only the emotional connection, Musicophile, then, this is going to be a very personal quest, where, accidentally only, some of us might help you. If you become a bit more "detached" from your emotions and attached more to the score, you might appreciate (with all the potential ramifications) a great deal of recordings with a variety of (even unexpected) returns.

Parla

Ref value

Recordings by the composer or with the composer's approval, if available, should probably be considered as the references.

I believe that in most cases composers would not eagerly accept a multitude of interpretations of their works.

The "production" quality of a recording should not affect one's view of a work.

Production values.

Recordings by the composer are still some sort of (greater) reference, not the reference. Composers are not often good conductors and they cannot, even themselves, provide all the aspects (the potential) of their works. They have to...choose their own interpretation.

Composers might not "eagerly accept a multitude of interpretations of their works", but they can be very happy, if some bright soloist or conductor discovers something new and valid in their works.

The playback disc is a specific product and the laws of market apply here as well: the better the production, the more rewarding the listening experience, as long as the actual performance is not an obvious flop. Solti's Ring would not have been such a success story, if the production was an ordinary one, let alone a mediocre one. Likewise, even less significant works can become very interesting, even rewarding, experiences, if the production is of the first order (e.g. the less important and unknown String Quartets by a minor almost obscure figure like Wolf, in the supreme production of Caro Mitis).

Parla

 

parla wrote:

parla wrote:

If it is only the emotional connection, Musicophile, then, this is going to be a very personal quest, where, accidentally only, some of us might help you. If you become a bit more "detached" from your emotions and attached more to the score, you might appreciate (with all the potential ramifications) a great deal of recordings with a variety of (even unexpected) returns.

Parla

Sure, this quest is personal in a way. But educated suggestions very much help. 

 

And while I appreciate your more intellectual approach to the work, on Brahms 1, I just can't get there this way. This was my first great symphony I fell in love with, I'll never be able to "detach" from my emotions on this one.

 

Doesn't stop me from listening to other versions obviously, and appreciating them, but ultimately, music for me is all about the emotions.

Musicophilesblog.com

TedR wrote:

TedR wrote:

I don't think I have any very contemporary recordings but Wand (DSO Berlin) is quite powerful, weightly and fiery and Sanderling (Berlin S) has the gravitas. Or possibly Tennstedt (LPO) fits the bill. I think you probably need to give us an idea of who you have already rejected!

 

Ted

 

 

I did check out Sanderling (both with the Berlin Symphony and on an earlier cylcle with the Staatskapelle Dresden) on my Qobuz streaming subscription, and both are very good indeed. Thanks.

 

But guess what, my new favorite from this is Tennstedt! He kind of completely flew under my radar screen. I had heard his name before, but never an actual recording. Thanks for pointing it out to me. 

Musicophilesblog.com

Choice value

Parla,

A performer has all the right to offer an individual interpretation; this may be at the expense of the composer's intentions.

If you see value in different interpretations of the same passage, then the score is not completely precise.

Objective and subjective values.

The score cannot be but precise (scripta manent). It is a written text. The interpretation cannot be completely true to the text. It is an oral, living expression of individual(s). The interpretation is the subjective view of a precise text and can be detrimental, enlightening, illuminating...an eye-opener etc. As for the "composer's intentions", from the moment there is a score, they are only of academic interest. The score super omnes counts.

Parla

(I)nterest, and not only

Please parla, if you can explain further why the separation of the score from intent.

Scripta manent.

Tjh, the musicians rely on (they read, study, perform) the score. This is the fact to work with. The composer's intent is of academic interest, since it is a theoretical issue of research and interpretaion of some evidence already found or provided. We know that composers change their views of what initially had in mind, as the composition or other non-musical factors had been developed. Sometimes, the composers change their intent even after the composition was over (e.g. Bruckner on almost every occasion).

Parla

Some info you asked for earlier

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