Karajan Ring Help

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concrete, or Crete?

With "a personal statement about the music regardless of its title or relevant text", one may ask on what grounds they can be disregarded, and for what purpose.  Apparently change is not needed for the sake of an atheist.

Even if the text is changed to be more suitable for such a listener, "immeasurable astonishment" may still exist; I am just suggesting that the response after such a change would not be exactly the same as the original content.  (In any event, Bach might be astonished).

I trust that for some, no matter the religious belief, "Moon River" is a divergence.  Regardless, it appears that there are two different pictures in "the concrete picture given by the two different texts give a different whole picture".

(Godiam la pace)

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTQxNDQwOTYw.html

(27:55- 28:05; 30:50-31:00)

lieding question

parla wrote:

By removing the vocal part from a score, of course this changes the original instrumentation, but this happens because of the vocal line itself, which is music per se, not on account of the text it serves. In other words, we should not attribute to the text the musical impact of the existence or the removal of the respective vocal line. See in how many various musical ways different or sometimes the same composers used the same text (Masses, Requiem, Stabat Mater, Magnificat or the same poems by Heine or Goethe etc.). In a nutshell, the text per se is not music.

Parla

But, for example, if Schubert had not come across the poem "Gretchen am Spinnrade", would he have written the same music in some other context? In my opinion he would not, indeed could not, have done so. The music would have been lost forever and the same applies to most great lieder.

Lieding response.

I do not disagree with your post, guillaume, since in almost every case of Lied, Song, Chanson etc. the text consititutes or serves as the inspiration for the composer to write his score. However, the inspiration (the text) per se is not music. That's why different composers can set to their own different music the same poem, lyrics or text.

In other words, I do not deny the significant role of the poem, lyrics or text in any form of composition (Lied, Oratorio, Opera etc.). I just underline that the music matters as for the composition and the composer we are dealing with (we cannot praise Schubert for using the poem "Gretchen am Spinnarde" but for how he set it to music, let alone how he was inspired to compose a large-scale Quartet on "Der Tod und das Mädchen" or a whole five-movement Quintet on a simple song like "Die Forelle").

Parla

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