Schubert masses

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slightly disappointed

This thread led me to listen again last night to my only Schubert mass, the A flat major with Haselbock.  I did enjoy it but it left me feeling that I should expect more in this genre from Schubert somehow.  Perhaps the performance depressed my appreciation.  I note Parla's comment on this version above.  I will try others (on Spotify) but as it stands, I can't see myself rushing to buy more Schubert religious music. 

You're a strange one, Vic! On

You're a strange one, Vic! On one thread you are attacking Parla and accusing him of having ruined the forum.......and on this one, you say "I note Parla's comment above", implying that you value his advice and welcome his activity on the very same forum he has supposedly destroyed. Very bizarre. Furthermore, you obviously accept that he doesn't really know a lot of the stuff he claims to know - no human being subject to the conventional laws of mortality could - yet you now refer to his expertise with a kind of implied respect. What is going on? 

 

Very bizarre indeed!

Is it that bizarre that not that few members, even occasionally, either appreciate or simply "note" my comments. Eyeresist has already thanked me in this thread for my post and Vic merely "noted" my comment on this specific issue.

For your info -and sorry for the necessary for me digression, eyeresist- Vic, in the past has quite a few times thanked me for some of my suggestions.

In any case, I do not see in which way I ruin this thread. I'm afraid, Jane, your mission to...ruin me lead you to go over the top. Moderation is a virtue, but, no matter what, you will always be welcome. I hope you won't annoy other members of this forum. For me, you are always good.

Best wishes from the one who is not "subject to the conventional laws of mortality".

Parla

 

Understandable

Vic, I can understand your "slight disappointment" regarding the Haselbock's recording of the Mass in A flat. This particular recording can be appreciated properly, played in a good SACD player, so that one can enjoy all the details and hidden virtues of the work. However, per se, the performance could not be better than it actually is. A good but not bright or truly inspired one.

Nevertheless, the work is a gorgeous one, when performed in full form and with great forces. I was fortunate enough to attend, few years ago, a live performance of it in Berlin, with Harnoncourt and some of the best vocal and musical forces today (Orgonasova, Holzmair, etc.). The result was amazing enough to make this experience a most memorable one. His CD rendering of the Masses suffer also from a rather mediocre sound.

Finally, you should at least give the chance to yourself to explore the most mature and demanding of all the Choral Music by Schubert, his Mass in E flat. Don't miss it, even if so many conductors and soloists have overlooked it. It is second to none.

With best wishes.

Parla

D872

parla wrote:

 

The three major Masses are : a) the Deutsche Mass, D.872 and the last two in A flat, D.678, and in E flat, D.950.

-For the Deutsche Mass, I still prefer the Sawallisch for the vocal parts (Popp, Fischer-Dieskau.

 

 

There are no soloists in the Deutsche Mass ...

eyeresist wrote:

eyeresist wrote:

 

I can't agree with you regarding the Deutsche Mass - I've tried two recordings (Sawallisch and Harrer) and didn't make it to the end of either one. It's just unbearably inane. Or this may be the best instance of a work for which a smaller, more naive performance might be truer to the piece.

 

... it being intended to be sung by church congregations. This accounts for its conservative style, slow tempi and unsophisticated nature, and explains why it isn't a great listening experience though I think it has a certain charm. Sawallisch's seems to me as good a performance as possible, given the nature of the work.

guillaume wrote:

guillaume wrote:

 

parla wrote:

 

 

The three major Masses are : a) the Deutsche Mass, D.872 and the last two in A flat, D.678, and in E flat, D.950.

-For the Deutsche Mass, I still prefer the Sawallisch for the vocal parts (Popp, Fischer-Dieskau.

 

 

 

 

There are no soloists in the Deutsche Mass ...

 

An excellent example for anyone out there who still thinks that he actually knows anything about music. Evidently, he googled the subject (as he does for every thread - often plagiarising directly from other sources), found a CD cover with the Deutsche Messe conducted by Sawallisch and noted that Popp et. al. were listed on the front as soloists. Unfortunately for him, these soloists only feature on the other works on the CD........If he had actually known the Deutsche Messe, he would have realised that there weren't any soloists at all.

As it is, he doesn't just claim they feature on the Deutsche Messe, he actually claims that they are the reason he prefers Sawallisch's recording!

 

There is no need to celebrate

There is no need to celebrate, Jane. In the actual text I mention the "vocal parts". In parenthesis, I mention the soloists, because, in almost any reissue of the Sawallisch recordings contain quite a few other works, where these "dream team" voices take part. Keeping my long post as brief as possible, I did not elaborate...

The essence is that even Guillaume, who "correct" me, accepts that the Deutsche Mass is a very individual work, not that impressive as one may expect and Sawallisch's recording is as good for the nature of the work.

In any case, I noticed that, probably thanks to this thread, you are about to explore Schubert's Masses. In doing so, you might find out whether you can disagree with my suggestions etc.

In the meantime, enjoy...

Parla

 

parla wrote:

parla wrote:

In parenthesis, I mention the soloists, because, in almost any reissue of the Sawallisch recordings contain quite a few other works, where these "dream team" voices take part. Keeping my long post as brief as possible, I did not elaborate...

Parla

 

- So which recording of the Deutsche Messe do you recommend, Parla?

- I prefer Sawallisch

- Why's that?

- The excellent soloists. Popp, Fischer-Dieskau......

- Oh, really? But the Deutsche Messe doesn't have any soloists?!

- Ah........I know that. I'm well aware of that. I was talking about the soloists in other works by Schubert.

- I'm not sure I follow. You are saying that your favourite version of the Deutsche Messe is the Sawallisch and that is because of a group of soloists who don't perform on it????

- Well, sometimes these soloists appear in the same CD, just not on the Deutsche Messe...........

Goodmorning, Jane.

If you really wish to know which is the best available recording of Deutsche Messe, then, Sawallisch is the obvious (and possibly the only one) answer for the "vocal parts", as I mentioned. The work is not enough for a CD and, in every recording, more works are included. In the case of Sawallisch, among others, we have the arguably most significant of his early ones, the Mass in G (no.2).

Sawallisch's forces both orchestral and vocal are first class throughout this extensive series. It is a great plus to have these soloists, the Choir and the Bavarian Radio S.O., in either the single reissue or the 11CD box (or other reissues of the past), where one can enjoy along the "plain" Deutsche Messe" all these charming, beautiful and, in few cases, great works by Schubert.

That is the essence of my posts above.

Have a goodmorning...and a bon weekend.

Parla

Parla

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