Schubert masses

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parla wrote:Finally, since

parla wrote:

Finally, since you do not know anythiing about my life, you cannot prove anything concerning what I know or not.

I know one thing for sure, Parla: you don't prefer the Sawallisch Deutsche Messe because of the soloists.

I still prefer Sawallisch

I still prefer Sawallisch Deutsche Messe for the vocal parts though.

Parla

Hi Jane. I sampled the first

Hi Jane. I sampled the first Schubert Mass on youtube, and found it quite interesting and thrilling in parts. There's a lovely section in the Gloria beginning at 'gratias agimus tibi' - the 2nd section. The Credo is of particular note - dramatic and with a real ebb and flow to it.

Funny what you were saying about fugal writing though. The Gloria has an allegro vivace fugal ending which struck me as a bit of a jolt.

Overall, I like this work. 

(Added later: the score, as I said, is on IMSLP).

Fraz Jo - disapntd. Bn ringin this grl al week. No ansr...looks lke she changed her mnd. O well...Ldwg...

By "first", do you mean D105?

By "first", do you mean D105?

D 105

Yes having just checked on IMSLP, it is D 105 in F major.

Fraz Jo - disapntd. Bn ringin this grl al week. No ansr...looks lke she changed her mnd. O well...Ldwg...

I don't know that work, then,

I don't know that work, then, so I will have a listen. I don't usually listen to much early Schubert stuff - and D105 is very, very early. At that point, there is no way on earth he would have managed to write a fugue. Even in his later works, he apparently had to get other people to help him out with the knotty stuff. It isn't a reflection of his genius, of course, just a matter of not getting the right training. I read somewhere that he got into trouble with some of his sacred commissions because the prescribed fugues were either missing altogether or not up to scratch.

As you probably know, there is also a question mark over Beethoven's ability to write fugues. He did write fugues - and many of them are spectularly complex and highly original. But people have still wondered if he was really able to do it to the "proper" standards. The question is discussed in some length in Thomas Mann's Doctor Faustus.......

Fugues in Schubert / Early Schubert.

It is true that we cannot find many fugues or fugal writing in most of Schubert's works, but he seemed to have a good command of it in most of his Masses. Mark is right that there is a good fugue developed in the final part of Gloria and another fugal part in the Dona nobis pacem.

In the more mature A flat Mass, there is at least an interesting fugue in the finale of Gloria too, while in the last Mass in E flat, he provides a recital of fugal writing in virtually every movement: there are some quite long, glorious and fully developed fugues in Gloria (Cum Sancto Spiritu), Credo (Et vitam venturi and onwards), Sanctus (Osanna) and in Agnus Dei (a quasi double fugue).

Schubert had some good teachers, among them the always interesting figure of Salieri, and, at the age of 17, it is quite possible, for a prodigy, to be able to write a fugue of certain proportions. It is maybe more amazing how he managed the orchestration and choral writing for a work of  considerable duration, such as his First Mass. However, his Second, almost half as for the duration and modest in scale, is the most popular, performed and beloved among the early ones.

Early Schubert (what is actually early in a composer who lived for only 31 years; for example, the Mass no.3, bearing the D.324, was written in1815, only one year after the first two Masses!) has some other marvels to provide us, such as the Symphony no.2 in B flat, D.125 (a well developed and long Symphony), the Piano Sonata no.2 in C, D.279 (quite beautiful and well-written) and particularly the String Quartet in B flat, D.112 (a masterwork of an early genius), all of them composed between 1814-1815, as the First Mass.

Parla

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